Denme argumentos para defender a españa!

[jasev]

Today it's still useful. Do you remember "fletan" affair? The canadians found that latent xenophoby in the UK very useful.

[Plan Austral]

Originally posted by jasev
Today it's still useful. Do you remember "fletan" affair? The canadians found that latent xenophoby in the UK very useful.

Que es el flettan affair?
y de paso, donde puedo encontrar el scenario de Kindal de la primera guerra mundial?

[Jay Bee]

1) El fletan es lo que te venden en las pescaderias como si fuese lenguado para cobrarte mucho mas de lo que realmente vale. En ingles se dice "halibut". España y Canada tuvieron un conflicto a causa de ese pez hace unos años. Yo como vivia en USA no me entere practicamente

2) En el Spanish Civ Site, man!!! Cualquier buen escenario de Civ2 que te imagines esta ahi. Do not forget it eh, que me enfado

[whosurdaddy]

Originally posted by Waku
I think the main point here is that there's still a latent xenophoby among some people in the Anglo world against the hispanic world, it was probably very useful some centuries ago. Today is totally anachronical.

No sean tan paranoicos. Don't kid yourselves thinkin u guys are somehow special, we all know very well that the Anglo world has no specific xenophobia against the hispanic world. Rather, we are xenophobic towards ALL other nations, regardless of ethnic background

In all seriousness though, I don't see any specific animosity towards the hispanic world here, and certainly not nearly as much as towards the Russians and Chinese for example. Lets not forget some 25 million out of 280 million Americans are of hispanic background, including my grandmother who's family came from Spain before moving to puerto rico and then the united states, so there is a lot that actually links our worlds, much more so than separates them i think.

[Estilpón]

Originally posted by whosurdaddy

In all seriousness though, I don't see any specific animosity towards the hispanic world here, and certainly not nearly as much as towards the Russians and Chinese for example. Lets not forget some 25 million out of 280 million Americans are of hispanic background, including my grandmother who's family came from Spain before moving to puerto rico and then the united states, so there is a lot that actually links our worlds, much more so than separates them i think.

Ya decÃa yo, demasiado comprensivo...

La verdad es que los ingleses sienten una atracción por la historia de España, y al menos académicamente, por lo que yo he leÃdo son imparciales... Debe ser - la atracción - por la rivalidad histórica que existió.

Ahora mismo estoy leyendo una biografÃa del conde-duque de Olivares de lo más interesante, escrita por (como no), un hispanista (es decir, un hijo dela pérfida Albión...)

Otra cosa son los tabloides ¿eh?

[jasev]

Originally posted by Estilpón

Ya decÃa yo, demasiado comprensivo...

La verdad es que los ingleses sienten una atracción por la historia de España, y al menos académicamente, por lo que yo he leÃdo son imparciales... Debe ser - la atracción - por la rivalidad histórica que existió.

Ahora mismo estoy leyendo una biografÃa del conde-duque de Olivares de lo más interesante, escrita por (como no), un hispanista (es decir, un hijo dela pérfida Albión...)

Otra cosa son los tabloides ¿eh?

Es cierto que los hispanistas británicos son los mejores estudiosos de la historia de España; resulta paradójico. Dice J.H.Elliott en su "España Imperial":
"Una tierra seca, estéril y pobre [...] una penÃnsula separada del continente europeo por la barrera montañosa de los Pirineos, aislada y remota. [...] La carencia de recursos naturales resulta abrumadora. Sin embargo, en los últimos años del S.XV y primero sdel XVI, pareció como si hubiese sido superada, de modo repentino y casi milagroso."

La clave es que los ingleses no se pueden creer que con una base como la nuestra tuviéramos a Europa -y sÃ, también a ellos- bien cogidos por los conojes durante siglo y medio. Por eso los historiadores británicos se sienten fascinados por España.

Pero como dice Pérez-Reverte, no hay que confundir a los refinados intelectuales británicos con la masa que lee los tabloides. Para ellos, España es sinónimo de inquisición (¿recordáis los Monty Phyton?), oscurantismo, la armada invencible (que no paran de recordarnos con mucho cachondeo), Trafalgar, y la gripe española de 1919 (cayeron como moscas, y decidieron que una gripe tan malÃsima sólo podÃa ser nuestra ).

Por cierto Estilpón, si la biografÃa del conde-duque que estás leyendo es la de Elliott, te felicito; es una verdadera joya.

[Waku]

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
Rather, we are xenophobic towards ALL other nations, regardless of ethnic background

Including British yes I know you're not Who, but you just made me recall what I admire the most of the british sense of humour: they are very capable of making nasty jokes about any foreign country but they are legitimated to do so because they're even nastier with themselves.

so saying I still think there's a long tradition that maximizes our faults and minimizes our virtues and that's probably due to the fact that we have always been in opposing sides (even when fighting a common enemy) til today.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Estilpón
Ahora mismo estoy leyendo una biografÃa del conde-duque de Olivares de lo más interesante, escrita por (como no), un hispanista (es decir, un hijo dela pérfida Albión...)

Elliot I presume Me la lei mientras hacia cola en el courthouse de San Diego esperando para entregar los papeles de la green card. A mi me no me gusto nada. Lectura muy poco agil. El otro, Kamen, es mas ameno.

Pero coincido contingo losbritanicos que saben tienen una fascinacion especial por lo hispano que resulta bastante curiosa, dado que la gente no cultivada es en general muy poco hispanofila. El ingles sin cultura suele bastante despreciativo con todo lo que viene del sur de Europa, especialmente España e Italia. De hecho tienen hasta una palabra para definirnos pero no la recuerdo ahora.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by jasev
Por cierto Estilpón, si la biografÃa del conde-duque que estás leyendo es la de Elliott, te felicito; es una verdadera joya.

No habia visto esto cuando conteste a Estilpon... Estos felipistas....

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
No sean tan paranoicos. Don't kid yourselves thinkin u guys are somehow special, we all know very well that the Anglo world has no specific xenophobia against the hispanic world. Rather, we are xenophobic towards ALL other nations, regardless of ethnic background

In all seriousness though, I don't see any specific animosity towards the hispanic world here, and certainly not nearly as much as towards the Russians and Chinese for example. Lets not forget some 25 million out of 280 million Americans are of hispanic background, including my grandmother who's family came from Spain before moving to puerto rico and then the united states, so there is a lot that actually links our worlds, much more so than separates them i think.

Whos, of course of course. There is however too much ignorance. Please tell us about those beautiful conquistador stories that are told in US high schools

Tell me about that extraodinarily enlightening comment by an American in the civfanatics thread (England colonized, Spain plundered)... that's exactly what I was referring to in that previous post of mine that you misunderstood. Regretably there is still a lot of misunderstandings between the Hispanic and Anglo worlds. Both ways, eh?. It's a pity but that's the way it is.

[Estilpón]

Originally posted by jasev

Por cierto Estilpón, si la biografÃa del conde-duque que estás leyendo es la de Elliott, te felicito; es una verdadera joya.

Pues sÃ, de ediciones Mondadori, y me está gustando bastante

[Fiera]

Hmm, ando buscando ese libro desde hace bastante. Esa edición de Mondadori es nueva? Y barata, per casualité?

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
... Please tell us about those beautiful conquistador stories that are told in US high schools

...enlightening comment by an American in the civfanatics thread (England colonized, Spain plundered.

You unwittingly answered your own query!

US high school propoganda (a.k.a. "history") classes teach that the English happily and peacefully settled vast amounts of mysteriously empty land. The Spaniards crushed the poor, peaceful Carib, conquered the Aztecs and Incas, then sent countless shiploads of silver and gold back to Spain. The cruelty! The theft!

[Waku]

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
propoganda (a.k.a. "history")

and it's been like that since Guttemberg

[jasev]

Originally posted by Waku
and it's been like that since Guttemberg

It sounds a little drastic