Andalusian Secession?

[Masis]

quote: Originally posted by Waku on 05-06-2001 12:25 PM Someone should explain to Maroc & Turkey that to be in Europe is a prerequisite since they have applied to become a member.

The map below should remove any doubts about the legitimacy of Turkey being a part of Europe-noting the substantial European part of Turkey that includes such famous cities as Adrianopolis (Edrine) and Constantinopolis (Istanbul).

Being a geographical part of Europe to be a member of the EEC is not a real factor, being Geographically close to Europe and being able to offer something back in return for gaining monetary aid is a factor, Tunisia is also developing close ties to the EEC, Algeria would also like to follow suit once it sorts out its Islamic fundamentalist ailments (which may never be sorted out.
If we are to go on the theory that to be a member of the EEC your country must be in Europe, then what will happen to Iceland or Britain and Ireland not to mention Russia which streches to the Bering straits and China.


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MRP

[Henrik]

quote: Originally posted by Masis on 05-06-2001 12:40 PMIf we are to go on the theory that to be a member of the EEC your country must be in Europe, then what will happen to Iceland or Britain and Ireland not to mention Russia which streches to the Bering straits and China.

Iceland and Ireland are parts of Europe, Brittain is also a part of Europe
Turkey is part of Asia Minor and as long as they is occupying half of Cyprus they wont get near the Union.

[Henrik]

Do you sugest then that all things that Turkey does wrong now should be forgiven and allowed to continue becouse other nations has done bad things in the past?
All of those things you mention has stopped.
Should the vikings not have been converted (and thus aware of the fact that they where getting themselves some mighty enemies in the cristian empires).
You are suggesting that we just watch as these things happens since it is part of the way that human civilisations work?
Ofcourse the economy is a very strong reason for not letting them in.
But even if they had a strong economy they wouldn't be allowed to enter the union, they are at war whit another nation that is trying to enter the union!
What kind of union would it be if the nations whit in was at war whit eachoter?

As you said this discussion is a bit of the thread topic so perhaps we should stop or if you prefer start a new thread...

[kIndal]

quote: Originally posted by Henrik on 05-07-2001 02:36 AM As you said this discussion is a bit of the thread topic so perhaps we should stop or if you prefer start a new thread...

I have start a new thread about this theme.

But i hope that the first intention of the topic doesn´t die

[This message has been edited by kIndal (edited May 07, 2001).]

[Masis]

quote: Originally posted by Masis on 05-06-2001 10:32 PM Turkeys real reason for being turned down as a member of the EEC (though it has a Customs Union) is real-politik, the economy. It can not really be due to Human Rights abuses as Norway and other Scandinavian countries have blood on their hands too-The Vikings (famous Viking torture 'the blood eagle' in which a person was tied to a stake, had their chest slit open and the ribs pulled apart). Spain, alas, has also it's fair share of Human Rights abuses-The Inquisition + The conquest of the Americas leading to the enslavement of Thousands of Native Americans and the destruction of the MesoAmerican socieities.

Apologies to Kindal and Henrik if by mentioning the Human Rights abuses of the Spaniards and Scandinavians I have touched a National Nerve within them.
Just because these atrocities happened in the so called past does not excuse the descendants to avoid admiting the Guilt of the Nation.
That is merely copying the stance of the Turkish government which wishes to blame the Ottomans for past atrocities, though the 'greatest' level of atrocites was committed by the Young Turk movement-the Kemalist nation of modern Turkey being it's heir.
I do not look passively at these atrocties as being a part of life, I look at them as a syndrome of the illness of Humanity.
Merely by stating the atrocities of your nations, I follow the saying of Our Lord Jesus Christ "You can not remove the piece of grit from your brother's eye when you have a log covering your eyes, first remove the log and then remove the grit from your brothers eyes".
This means that to criticise a fault of another is pointless when one has many fault to deal with first.
Have the now 'Christian' nations payed compensation to the few remaining minorites who have suffered under their rule?

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MRP
[This message has been edited by Masis (edited May 07, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Masis (edited May 07, 2001).]

[kIndal]

As you haven´t reply in the new thread that I have opened, I will reply here
I think you are very wrong, nobodies are blamed Turkish for the past atrocities, only for the actual ones, so when they were solved Turkey could be in EC.
I cannot speak about "vikings atrocities" but I think you only know the Black Legend of the Inquisition, there were Inquisition not only in Spain, too in France, England, Italy and other Catholic states, and Spanish Inquisition weren´t the worst, it killed less people in all its history that deads in the night of Sant Bartholomew in France. So speaks about others Spanish atrocities in the Middle Ages or when Romans or Visigoths,(that are some of them, but as all countries, nations and civilizations).
And don´t forget that is Turkey which want to enter in the EC, so Turkey must obey European rules, if they don´t want to be a EC´s member nobody will force them to do anything.

[Henrik]

quote: Originally posted by Masis on 05-07-2001 02:30 PM Apologies to Kindal and Henrik if by mentioning the Human Rights abuses of the Spaniards and Scandinavians I have touched a National Nerve within them.

Actually this has nothing to do whit it. I don't think I am even closely related to the vikings (about 5% of Swedens poplutation at the time, and back then I would have been a Dane) the scandinavian nations nationalists do go on about vikings but most people back then where farmers, a few tribes/dukedoms near the coasts where Vikings and managed to do some horrible things, still since I suspect that my ancestors came from the Netherlands back during the Renaissance (lots of Vallonians (not sure thats the right term) moved to scandinavia back then where they where well payed and helped to start the Renaissance in the north).
As Jesús has pointed out I am not blaming Turkey for what it has done but rather for what it is doing right now.