JNES World War III- Cold War turns hot

[Sheep]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


No. The Arab states were never ones to think very logically, and they considered Israel's mere existence an act of war. IRL, I think we can be fairly certain that the first thing they would do upon the outbreak of war between NATO and the Warsaw Pact would be invade Israel while the West was distracted, probably with Soviet backing.

Of course, all of that was based upon a situation which did not include Soviet attempts to oust every regime in the ME, which would likely have the effect of turning them very much against the USSR, so it all depends on whether the attempt was made at all - and, IMO, the KGB and Politburo would be smart enough that they simply wouldn't authorise such a thing or try to carry such orders out.

You take the a very Zionist view towards the Arab hatred for the Israeli state. Don't you think the occupation of the Palestinian state, the constant anti-arab policies and the zionist view of the United States and the western world something to do with it.

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Sheep


You take the a very Zionist view towards the Arab hatred for the Israeli state. Don't you think the occupation of the Palestinian state, the constant anti-arab policies and the zionist view of the United States and the western world something to do with it.

Of course the hatred itself wasn't without basis, but it was so pervasive (and so useful as a means of keeping the population under control) that it became irrational in itself - or perhaps you have another explanation for the way Arab governments seem to blame Israel for everything from September 11 to the invasion of Iraq? Or for the general spreading of anti-semitisc sentiment?

[Jack_www]

ooc:
One more thing on the middle east. First the people in government I dont think give a rat ass about Isreal but use their people's hatered for Isreal to get them to ingore the problems in their own country. Also Isreal's millitary more then once crushed arab armies that tried to invade Isreal and basicly destory their nation, and even when they were outnumbered. They also have nuclear weapons and those arab nations know that Isreal could use them if they attacked so they would not attack, because Isreal can defend itself very well.

Many in middle east hated the Soviet Union just as much as Isreal simply for the fact they completly ingore religion and try to destory it, while at least Isreal does say God exists. In real life KGB would not do what Sheep had them do, but it happened. And now they are at war with Soviet Union. Sometimes you deal with your eneimies one at a time, and sometimes you find yourself allied with a eneimie to conbat a common one both of you have. Maybe they would not say that exact thing, but I believe that they would be more pissed off at Soviet Union then Isreal. Look at what happen in the Gulf War, the US has able to station 500,000 troops in Saudi Arabi. So I think this is reasonable. Also the middle east hast to sell oil to someone.

[GeneralTacticus]

Originally posted by Jack_www
ooc:
One more thing on the middle east. First the people in government I dont think give a rat ass about Isreal but use their people's hatered for Isreal to get them to ingore the problems in their own country.

My own opinion is that a lot of them spew so much vitriol at Israel that they end up believing it (and don't forget that Saddam and Assad were and are Baathists, which is basically an Arab variant of fascism, and the Saudis are Wahabistists (sp?), like bin Laden), but, in view of current reality, they prefer to put off destroying Israel to some unspecified future.

Also Isreal's millitary more then once crushed arab armies that tried to invade Isreal and basicly destory their nation, and even when they were outnumbered.

Don't be so sure about that. They barely survived the Yom Kippur War, and that was with massive amounts of US aid. In the context of a general Warsaw/NATO war, the US would hardly be in any state to send Israel billions of dollars worth of arms.

They also have nuclear weapons and those arab nations know that Isreal could use them if they attacked so they would not attack, because Isreal can defend itself very well.

Nukes are about the only security guarantee that Israel can rely on, and even they are iffy; even if they escaped conquest by nuking, there wouldn't be much of Israel left, either, if not from whatever retaliation got thrown at them, then from the loss of international trade as they became a pariah state.

Many in middle east hated the Soviet Union just as much as Isreal simply for the fact they completly ingore religion and try to destory it, while at least Isreal does say God exists.

They hated the Soviets because they were atheists (at least, the fundies did; the Baathists and Nasserites got along fine with them), but they ahted Israel far more because Israel was, to them, sitting on stolen Muslim land.

Moreover, what you seem to be forgetting is that until the early 1970s, the USSR was the big sponsor of countries like Syria and Egypt, who had no qualms about accepting Soviet aid.

In real life KGB would not do what Sheep had them do, but it happened. And now they are at war with Soviet Union. Sometimes you deal with your eneimies one at a time, and sometimes you find yourself allied with a eneimie to conbat a common one both of you have. Maybe they would not say that exact thing, but I believe that they would be more pissed off at Soviet Union then Isreal.

That would depend on how clsoe the Soviets came to success. If they came very close, they'd probably band together and resist the Soviets to assure their own survival; if theyr didn't come close, they'd probably get very annoyed, but they wouldn't go to war. And, again, as far as theyw ere concerned, Israel was sitting on stolen Muslim land and had to be destroyed; no such feelings toward the USSR.

Look at what happen in the Gulf War, the US has able to station 500,000 troops in Saudi Arabi. So I think this is reasonable.

Arab governments allowed the US to use their territory to attack Iraq because to let Saddam get away with invading another Arab state would be a recipe for anarchy in the ME. No such thing would result from not attacking the USSR for an attempt to foment coups.

[Jack_www]

ooc:
Let just get back to the game. I will figure something out with the middle east latter. The next update is not untill Wenesday.

[Specialist290]

ORDER CORRECTION
-OK, OK. Search for any possible escapees and round up those you find.

FURTHER ORDERS
-Move the Soviet fleet in the Indian Ocean to the Southern Atlantic as quickly as possible, especially the subs. The main fleet is to stay in the south, but the subs are to attack the convoy through the "back door".

[Tassadar500]

ORDERS
- Move all forces back into Warsaw Pact controlled areas.

From: Warsaw Pact
To: India and China
We ask you to join the war against the United States and NATO. We will protect you in any way. All of Asia could be yours.

[Jack_www]

Update- Week 3

Europe
The battle lines have not changed as both sides, NATO and the Soviets have chosen to dig in their postions that they had at the end of week 2. Most of the fighting has occured in the air though.

The NATO and United States Air Forces have begun massive bombing of Soviet lines and East Germany.
This has resulted in many troops getting killed as they were going about different tasks. THe jamming has allowed the B-52 to enter Soviet air space and drop their bombs, but 4 bombers have been shot down and 6 damaged as Soviet Fighters homed in on to were the jamming was coming from.

United States Airforce also has destoryed many of the Soviets SAM sites, but their are still enough SAMs to cause problems with aircraft in the area. One other problem with SAMs on the ground is that the crews have sometime shot down their own Fighters in the confussion of the fighting.

The United State has also been able to place special opp teams in East Germany and Iceland. They are now ready to start their missions.

North Atlantic
There are over 40 soviet subs in the North Alantic hunting ships in convoys. The next supply convoy is still under United States air cover, but will soon enter the danger area of the mid Atlantic.

In Iceland the US has begun to proob Soviet air defenses on the Island.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Diplomacy:

From: India
To: Warsaw Pact and United States
We wish to stay out of this war. We wish to remain at peace with both the United States and the Soviet Union. We are willing to allow both sides of this conflict to use India as nuetral ground to try to come to a peacefull resultion to this war.

From: Sweden and Norway and Finland
To: United States
We are remaining nuetral at this time.

From: Middle East
To: United States
(secret) Right now you can use our bases for insertion of special opperation teams. As far as our air bases we think that this is a good idea but we think this over more amoung ourselves. The Soviet Union has taken no futher action against us at this time and we are still trying to figure out what our response will be to their actions.

From: South Korea
To: United States
(secret)
We have put our entire army on alert and called up reserves. We too fear what the communist in the North are up too, but we have not recieved any intelligence as of yet to sugest that they are planing an attack. Would you be able to send reinforcements to us if we were to come under attack?

[Specialist290]

ORDERS WEEK 3

-Ground all Soviet aircraft over Central Europe and transfer them to Iceland. That way, we can let the SAMs shoot anything that moves up there.
-As soon as the convoys leave air support, blow them out of the water. Use planes from Iceland and the Soviet mainland to take out the escorts.
-Stay dug in in Europe. Launch no attacks until reinforcements arrive.

From: Soviet Union
To: Warsaw Pact

We need those units. Please put them back on the front lines.

From: Soviet Union
To: India

We appreciate this gesture.

From: Soviet Union
To: Middle East

As a gesture of our kindness we are shipping you some free wood from our forests. IIRC, wood is quite scarce in the desert.

[Sheep]

Isnt amazing how the United States can;t lose this war.

[Easthaven I]

USA ORDERS:

-Launch air attacks against Soviet air bases (emphasis on grounded aircraft).

-Use the F-19 stealth fighter wings to strike enemy positions as well as shoot down enemy transport planes and such moving from Eurasia to Iceland.

-After a massive air bombardment and artillery bombardment launch an offensive with the fresh american forces hunkered down on the west shores of the River Weser and the newly arrived remnants of the 82nd airborne and 101st air assault divisions, now that enemy frontlines are weak with the removal of Warsaw Pact forces.
-----The 1st Armored Division and 1st Infantry Division with rested NATO forces are to launch the offensive with an armored thrust into Warsaw/Soviet held territory with the main objective of the offensive being to form a line from Dresden to Rostock, cutting off Soviet forces in Denmark. 2 battalions of the 82nd Airborne Division are to drop on the east side of the River Elbe to disrupt enemy supply and comm lines and hopefully to secure the east shores as the 1st Armored and 1st ID arrive. 3 battalions of the 101st air assualt are to take Leipzig and secure the area as land forces arrive there also. The 173rd Airborne Brigade is to drop in the middle area of the Berlin-Rostock-Hamburg triangle.

-The Special Forces A-teams in East Germany are to coordinate with liberation forces in preventing Warsaw/Soviet reinforcements, disrupt comm and supply lines, taking out SAM sites, and especially providing important intelligence and recon on enemy movements and concentrations.

-THe Special Op teams in Iceland(including Delta Force, Special Forces and Navy SEALs) are to remain covert as long as possible, provide information on the number of Soviet aircraft, and patrols, locate SAM sites, and troop concentration around the two major airports (Keflavik and Reykjavik). When the time comes (possibly at the end of the week depending on quality of intelligence) the Special Op teams are to locate and destroy all SAM sites, including mobile, and destroy as many grounded aircraft as possible and provide immediate information on troop locations probably minutes before before F-4 Phantoms arrive to take out any remaining SAM sites and troops concentrations about an hour before transport planes drop all 3 battalions of the elite 75th Ranger Regiment on Reykjavik and Keflavik airports with close air support. The 3 Ranger Battalions are divided in two groups (the 3rd being broken in two and attached to 1st and 2nd) and they are to take and secure the two airports intact. Once the airports are secured, reinforcements will arrive bringing 1 battalion of the 82nd airborne and 1 battalion of the 101st air assualt. Then from there the Ranger Battalions are to fan out, neutralizing all Warsaw/Soviet forces. Rules of Engagement: shoot first ask questions later.

-3rd Infantry Division and 1st Cavalry Division are boarding ships, on their way to Europe(via Med Sea). Heavy heavy escorts. A diversionary convoy is to run amock in the North Atlantic, seeming to be huge but really just a group of war ships escorting empty out of date transports. A trap to strike at the Russian subs and divert them even farther away from the reinforcements.

-10th Mountain Division heading towards Europe via air transports back and forth, until the whole of it is in France.

-Plans are in progress of sending the 25th Infantry Division to reinforce the 2nd Infantry Division in South Korea (in case the need arises). As well as the 1st Marine Division.

-5th Special Forces Group in charge of operating out of the Middle East in striking at the Soviets from there. First objective is to severely damage the Baku oil fields in the Caucusus as well as the Ploeisti oil fields in Romania.

-Supply drops initiated on the cornered NATO forces in Denmark.

======

USA TO MIDDLE EAST:
We appreciate your cooperation and will show our appreciation with money later. For now we will give you 1.5 billion dollars to aid you.

USA to South Korea:
That is good to hear you are on the alert. We have a whole division ready to deploy to your country now, if North Korea attempts to cross into the DMZ.

USA to NATO:
We are launching an offensive, for now you can rest your main forces (the ones that have been in the most fighting) on your lines to now provide us with a security measure knowing of a line to fall back to. It is our turn to strike at the Russian bear, reinforcements on the way.

[foolish_icarus]

NATO to U.S. :

ok


NATO frontline troops are now acting as support units where the U.S. is taking over the attack for the time being. With no enemies in the air, high altitude and low-signature bombers and strike craft are taking to the air and hitting locations from the Soviet lines to Warsaw. Rested and reserve troops (not the draftees yet, they are still in training) have been rotated into the fighting along the U.S. forces where they can get some battle experience at a lesser costs and giving active troops a rest.

[Tassadar500]

To Soviet Union:
*secret*
We are planning to launch a major invasion of Germany. The forces are too disorganized. We are going to deploy our troops back now in West Germany.

Orders--
Deploy troops in West Germany for a major invasion. Make every person at the age of 21 fight in the army. Upgrade Air Force.

[Jack_www]

ooc:
I forgot my School ID at home, thus I cant use the computers at school. Also I my not be able to get online tommorow that much and the update might be delayed. Thanks for you understanding.

[Specialist290]

ADDITIONAL ORDERS USSR

-Cancel the grounding orders on the aircraft.
-Prepare for a final press on NATO forces in Denmark.
-Deploy radar-jamming aircraft in Europe.
-*secret* Launching from the Caucasus and overflying Turkey, Greece, and Italy, and assisted by tanker aircraft, proceed to attack NATO airbases in Bavaria, eastern France, and, if they can make it that far, Belgium. Make sure that the planes are off the ground before the strikes occur.
-Scavenge as much equipment from shot-down aircraft within our lines to cut down on airplane repair costs.
-*secret* Begin bringing huge amounts of troop transports from Leningrad and Danzig to Danish ports on the Baltic. If the Kiel Canal hasn't already been seized, do so.

ANNOUNCEMENT: Starting next turn, I'm going to PM all my orders. Jack can reveal some of the info to the US/NATO as "intelligence briefings" on each turn update, just as long as it's not too much.