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Imperial Dip 50: Fall 1870 Moves

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  • #16
    I guess it beats no orders, or maybe he authorized the switch

    Nah, I explained how it worked out in the replacement thread- just as I was about to send him a third notice to get the moves in, I saw his post in the OT that he'd be gone for a week with no Internet. I made an executive decision that we didn't shouldn't delay the game yet another week, and yet he shouldn't be punished for NMRing on a soft deadline. Hence the made-up moves.

    As to your other concerns... well, therein lies the problems of replacement. Your point is well-taken Defiant, I'm afraid not many people read that replacement thread I mentioned above, but I did formulate my policy for civil disorder retreats there. I considered sending out another email about it to insure everybody knew and could plan their moves around that, but some people had already turned in their orders and I didn't want to slow things down even more, so I decided not to. Guess that was a mistake. But yes, if I had been GM from the start, I would have been very careful to make sure everybody knows the CD rules.

    And by the way RUFFHAUS, Queensland is still a Dutch province, the British army moved out of it. So it was a choice between two home provinces and an enemy SC. As for the rationale, if there had been a choice, it would have been random. That's what CD nations are. I figure that random half-a-brain moves are better than predictable 0 brain moves at times.

    Still, it's you guys and MDR's game. I'd be most curious as to what Gerwald has to say about this, since he's most directly affected.
    All syllogisms have three parts.
    Therefore this is not a syllogism.

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    • #17
      I just checked the Fall 1869 map, and Queensland was held by England at the End of 1869, there fore it's still an English possesion now. There may be some confusion about the colors used inside the SC dots, and the similar nature of the blue color shades.

      However, that's really an afterthought. I'm still confused as to why there would be special civil disorder rules for this game? No one here wants Holland or France ot be in CD. But we cannot get anyone to play the positions. We had replacement players, but to my knowlegge they made no effort to conduct diplomacy and then abanadoned the positions as their predecessors did.

      I won't belabor it further. My opinion has been given, and I think the CD units should be disbanded when forced to retreat. Let's hear from Gerwald, and from Orange_1 too.
      What is best in life? Crush your enemy! See him driven before you. And to hear the lamentation of his women.

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      • #18
        Snowfire,
        If you did put in you thread prior to the moves, then it would be our fault, I personally didn't read it and that would be my fault. You are the GM of this game now regardless of our or MDR's game, do what you think is best. I am just glad somebody picked the game up.
        Lets always remember the passangers on United Flight 93, true heroes in every sense of the word!

        (Quick! Someone! Anyone! Sava! Come help! )-mrmitchell

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        • #19
          WHOA!!!! I moved out of NZE because the rules stated that countries in civil disorder would have units retreat OTB. Why shouldn't the Dutch unit retreat to its own center if not off the board. Why should any GM dictate a gain or loss of a supply center? I formally protest that Dutch retreat.

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          • #20
            Gerwald: Alright, so you played your moves thinking they would retreat OTB. Fair enough. I will say that this isn't GM fiat, I would never do something like that without setting up a totally mechanical system first.

            I'm still confused as to why there would be special civil disorder rules for this game

            These are special? I know that some hardcore games are played that way as an encouragement not to NMR, but I thought the standard would be totally random retreats (instead of semi-random).

            I will say this: my apologies to those who disagree, but enemy units will not retreat OTB unless there are no other options. Like I said before, I don't want to set/continue a bad precedent for other games that could ruin CD positions even more than they already tend to be. What I will do is make it so that they retreat into friendly SCs first, random territories second, and an enemy SC only if there is no other choice (as illogical as that might be, if there was actually a player behind it). If this is a real problem, then I will happily step down as GM and let a different one willing to apply retreats OTB take over.

            Therefore, the fleet retreats to New Guineau.

            Anyway, now is a good time to go over CD build/disband procedure.
            -If they have builds, then they aren't used and are stored.
            -If there are disbands, then do not disband any unit on an SC.
            -After that requirement has been checked, start disbanding the units farthest from a SC controlled by them. To break ties, disband units farthest from a home SC first (if it is convenient to check, like on a Standard map. Prolly will not be done on this map). To further break ties, use randomness.

            This is the one I've always agreed with. If anybody has any objections, please say so now or forever hold your peace.

            Hmph, I do believe that was my first turn ever ajudicated with units in CD, believe it or not... reminds me of why I generally try and avoid it like the plauge.
            All syllogisms have three parts.
            Therefore this is not a syllogism.

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            • #21
              The latest Diplomacy rules are available here:

              http://www.hasbro.com/instruct/Diplomacy.PDF


              CIVIL DISORDER

              If you leave the game, or otherwise fail to submit orders for a given spring or fall turn, it is assumed that your government has collapsed. Your units hold in position, but do not support each other. If they are dislodged they are disbanded. No new units are raised for the country.

              If a country in civil disorder has to remove units, the units fatherest from the country are removed first. If units are equally distant, then remove fleets before armies, and then in alphabetical order by the provinces where they are located.

              It is probably best if enough players are present, to allow someone else to replace any player who leaves the game. Players should decide what policies they will follow before the game.



              Also here is the rule on civil disorder removals (civil disorder nations never build) from a previous Avalon Hill Diplomacy game:

              XV. MISCELANEOUS
              5. CIVIL DISORDER REMOVALS - If a country in civil disorder has to move units, because it lost supply centers, the unit farthest from home (most distant from nearest home supply center as computed by the shortest available route, including convoys) is removed first, the fleet before the army. If more units are equally eligible for removal than should be removed, priority is established by the names of the space which they are located, the earliest in alphabetical order coming off first.
              What is best in life? Crush your enemy! See him driven before you. And to hear the lamentation of his women.

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              • #22
                Since it would appear that the Mexicans have 3 builds.

                here they are:
                F REC
                A BRA
                F SCT

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