Roman Civil War

[fairline]

I think the Romans adopted the rectangular scutum about 40 - 50 AD at the same time as they introduced segmented armour. The celts had used iron helmets of the port/agen type for many years before the Romans adapted them for their own use; the celts were far better iron workers than the Romans, who basically adopted Celtic armour (iron mail, scutum and montefortino and coolus helmets). In the first century BC Romans wore mail, bronze montefortino helmets and carried curved-sided shields.

[Prometeus]

Originally posted by fairline


Prom - I don't think legionaries would have worn an iron Gallic coolus helmet at this time - they would have worn bronze Montefortino helmets.

That's why i said it'as a cesarian legionarius - Caesar's legion were recruited in Cisalpine Gaul... and that province was full of Celts, believe me. The only thing a subdued tribe had to do to mantain peace with Rome, was to provide - often with a full weapon set - a stabled recuits' quota as auxiliaries for Roman garrisons and legions in the provincial area. No matter about recruits' quality... so often they represented the scum of their tribe. Was up to Roman officers to train them as soldiers, men like "Cedo alteram" tribunus.

Things changed, as you said, when Roman armies adopted the so-called "lorica segmentata" to resist against Parthian archers' attacks - Gaul's lorica wasn't good enough in doing so. this leaded to a more standardized and uniform equipment in Roman defensive weaponry.

Originally posted by fairline

In the first century BC Romans wore mail...and carried curved-sided shields...

... both mutuated and adapted from celtic populations that lived in northern Italy, as it's written on the side.
Sorry i should have it translated... a.C. is english B.C., so it was a late repubblican age legionaire, the transitional kind between "Montefortino" and "Imperial" helmet kind.

[Prometeus]

PS One of the Gaul's war at Caesar's orders was borrowed from Pompeus' army. It'as sent back to Pompeus right before the start of the Civil War, so no one of these Gaul veterans received the traditional donative.

[fairline]

Thanks for setting me straight, Prometeus.

I thought that Roman equipment became standardised after the Marian reforms? maybe the fabricae in Cisalpine Gaul produced iron helmets while the rest of Italy produced montefortino helmets - certainly all the sources I've read state that iron helmets were adopted during Augustus' reign. Maybe I should change the graphic I did for Techumseh of a cesarian legionary. Were all Ceasar's legions Celtic?

[Prometeus]

Originally posted by fairline
Thanks for setting me straight, Prometeus.

I thought that Roman equipment became standardised after the Marian reforms? maybe the fabricae in Cisalpine Gaul produced iron helmets while the rest of Italy produced montefortino helmets - certainly all the sources I've read state that iron helmets were adopted during Augustus' reign. Maybe I should change the graphic I did for Techumseh of a cesarian legionary. Were all Ceasar's legions Celtic?

My sources starts talking about that kind of helmets from Perugia's war period.

I don't think, it's just a matter of pixels here for civ, tecumseh will be able to erase a couple of them ( i hope ).

Even if these legions were settled on northern italy, there were a lot of Italics into them. After Boi were whiped out of Cispadanian planes, their homeland was seized int hundreds and hundreds of small possessions, assigned to Italics or non celtic local populations ( into Cisalpine Gaul were included several Celto-raetian tribes, such as Orobii, Insubres as daediticii, not to forgot about Veneti and Cenomanians as free allies, and the so often rebel Ligures, plus Etruscans and Umbrians )... Making proportions 2 Caesarians every 7 were Celts for blood, mainly enlisted from Cenomanians.

[techumseh]

With the last of the units due to arrivie shortly (thanks again Fairlane), the thing is pretty close to being done. Can anyone help me with flags, banners, etc. for the various civs? I have vague ideas for the Romans and Gauls, but no clue about Parthia, Ptolemaic Egypt or Armenia (barbarian). Suggestions for any or all would be very helpful.

[fairline]

I've done a bit of research on this to complete the leader units, Techumseh.

Ptolemaic: Eagle perched on a thunderbolt, colours not known

Parthian: the army carried draco standards (dragons head with a 'windsock' body); coins generally show an archer or horse as a national symbol. Colours not known

Gauls: the cockeral is a common theme on standards.

Rome: the army carried the famous eagle standards whilst other well known symbols would be SPQR or winged Victory, both gold on a red ground.

Armenia: I found this symbol:

[Prometeus]

Originally posted by fairline

Parthian: the army carried draco standards (dragons head with a 'windsock' body); coins generally show an archer or horse as a national symbol. Colours not known

Gauls: the cockeral is a common theme on standards.

Parthians: "feudal" landlord's auxiliaries carried their commander in chief colours - one for Suren's family, one for Gew's, and so on. Unfortunately these colours seems to be individual ones.

Gauls used a lot horses and boars on their "buccinae", but Livius mentioned once that Insubrians "removed their sacred insigna from their own tribal temple" in Mediolanum, and that these "insigna" were "untouchable", made of other tribes' gold tribute, and marked with their war goddess' symbols. But he never mentioned shape or gave a simbols' description.

PS I just remebered that because recently, under the old spanish wall round, it'as found a Celtic nemeton of unusual proportions. Maybe it'as their war goddess' temple... why don't you use that Irish goddess... you know... the Morrigan, yeah... symbol ?

[fairline]

What's a Morrigan?

[Kull]

Originally posted by fairline
What's a Morrigan?

It's like a "Mulligan", except with Human Heads instead of Golf Balls.....

[fairline]

Finished! Well, almost

I think this is everything you requested, Techumseh, with the exeception of Cleopatra in a chariot. I'm going to be out of town for a while, so maybe someone else can have a go. Alternatively, there are a few female units by Erwan that fit the bill.

BTW, the Celtic leader symbol is supposed to be a wild boar. Maybe if you squint you can just about make it out

[Prometeus]

http://www.tarot-decks.com/morrigan.htm

[Prometeus]

Clèo Civ3 style.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Prometeus
Clèo Civ3 style.

mmm.......not quite what I had in mind Prom

[Prometeus]

Neither I...