Lord of the Rings V4: Event.txt

[Xin Yu]

I can cancel alliance with my allies to instantly move Frodo and the ring to the other side. Save a lot of turns! Why haven't I thought about it before?

Now I'm gonna exploit the diplomacy aspects of this scenario. I can get some useful techs from Isengard, and dump 'end techs' to it (maybe also to my allies ) so they'll not be able to produce good units. Hopefully they'll share the techs will Mordor.

[Harlan]

Xin Yu,
You are a very, very devious man . Some of the things you suggest are clever indeed, but others I would consider taking unfair advantage of Civ2 loopholes. The Alliance cancellation thing I would stop if I could, but I couldn't. All civ relationships are meant to be permanent, but unfortunately Civ2 only lets you control that so much. The "anybody" trigger bug wasn't known when I made that, now I don't want to post a new version just to fix that.

So using those two loopholes (and I have no doubt, a few of the additional ones you're likely to come up with! ), I would consider unfair, please don't. The other strategies you mention above I would say are fair game.

PS- Anybody know of any sites these days that post the sounds to version 4 as well? Anybody else want to put the scenario on their website just let me know.
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited June 10, 2000).]

[Andz83]

quote: Originally posted by Xin Yu on 06-09-2000 10:09 AM 'Ants' are the best units for attacking 'Mondor' cities once the ring is thrown to the dooms mountain. If I can build a lot of them I will move them to North and South, then cancel alliance with my allies, thus they will instantly move to the cities on the other side. This will take care of most 'Mondor' cities along the mountains. Just can't find out a way to get my cheap units there to disband and build 'Ants' every turn.

my first smile today, as I'm a sad person...

[Xin Yu]

Harlan: Thanks for responding! Please check the events.txt file to see if the givetechnology events are pointing to the right techs.

Did you say that except for cancelling alliance I can do other things in diplomacy? Like, trade techs with Isengard and dump 'end techs' to it so it cannot build good units anymore? (JK)

[Harlan]

Xin Yu,
I may have missed with some of the techs. Noone has pointed that out before. If you know of specific examples, let me know. Perhaps you can also see if some neighboring tech would make more sense.

Tech trading and dumping I lumped in with your other alliance schemes- no, those are thumbs down as well.

[Xin Yu]

Harlan: If I understand correctly you give techs in the following cases:

a) If Mordor gets the ring then Mordor gets a tech (with which Mordor gets money every turn). There is a tech in rules.txt named 'Sauron gets ring' which I believe should be the one, but you did not point the givetechnology event to it.

b) Same problem when Isengard gets the ring.

c) If Barad-dur is captured by Gondor then both Mordor and Isengard gets a tech, which I believe should be the endtech which expires their ability of building some tough units, but instead they got the elves endtech.

d) If barad-dur is captured then Gondor gets two techs, one of which will give Gondor money every turn and decrease Mordor and Isengard money every turn, another will allow Gondor to build the Mich wonder. This might not be correct in the events.txt as well (one of the two techs ends Gondor's ability of building some units!). There is a tech named 'King Return' or the sort should be one of the two techs, but I'm not sure about the other. (In fact there is no need to use two techs here.)

[Phoenix]

Xin Yu, you are a criminal genius!

[Xin Yu]

Thanks again Mr. Temba!

This scenario is really hard. The best unit Gondor can produce is about 1/8 the strength of Mordor ones. Which means even behind city walls it still cannot hold out. Talking about attack, it cannot even win against the weakest Mordor units behind walls. And you suppose to win the scenario within forty some turns! Even with your heroes work like firefighters you need to be very lucky to occupy the scores of enemy cities.

It's just unfair! I strongly demand that using diplomacy is allowed!

[Phoenix]

I kinda agree with Xin Yu on that one. I mean if the average mordor units can kill your heros without any real problem...ya know. Some subterfuge is required.

------------------
Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum
So if it might be right for you, it many not be right for some

[Harlan]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Have I foiled Xin Yu and his his clever, scheming ways? Must he fight his way to Barad-dur the "old-fashioned" way?

[Xin Yu]

Harlan: Give me the diplos back! In readme.txt you told me Gondor could build diplos. Where are they? If I have diplos then I don't need strong units. I just bribe them.

[Xin Yu]

Look at the unit stats below:
Cost: 20 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Pikemen 1/2/1/1
Mordor: Orcs 5/2/2/2

Cost: 30 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Archers 3/2/1/1

Cost: 50 a/d/h/f
Mordor: Spiders 4/4/3/2
Gondor: Knights 4/2/2/1

Cost: 60 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Galley (Navy) 4/2/2/1
Mordor: Dromund (Navy) 7/3/2/1
Gondor: Catapult 8/1/1/1

Cost: 80 a/d/h/f
Mordor: Uruk-Hai 7/3/2/2
Mordor: Battering Ram 8/1/1/1

Cost: 90 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Dwarves 6/4/3/2 Only 1 city can build

Cost: 100 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Hobbits 5/4/3/1 Only 2 cities can build
Gondor: Dunedain 6/3/2/1
Mordor: Trolls 8/3/3/2
Mordor: Wolves 8/1/2/2

Cost: 120 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Eagle (Heli) 8/5/3/2 Only 1 city can build

Cost: 150 a/d/h/f
Gondor: Ents (Bomber) 10/5/4/4 Only 1 city can build. Move 1, can't go too far from home

Other: a/d/h/f
Mordor: Olog-Hai 10/5/4/2 Given to Mordor by events every 4 turns on average
Mordor: Dragon (Air) 12/6/4/2 4 exist at the beginning
Mordor: Nazgul (Air) 12/7/6/3 8 exist at the beginning
Gondor: Various Hero Units

The least expensive Mordor unit (Orcs, 20 shields) has a/d/h/f=5/2/2/2, while the best Gondor unit which can be built in all cities (Dunedain, 100 shields) has a/d/h/f=6/3/2/1.

Harlan: ARE YOU KIDDING?

[Harlan]

No, I'm not kidding. I wanted to make a scenario one might actually lose. Too many scenarios are a romp in the park, the only question being how long will it take you to win. Just the same, I find I can win LotR at least 90% of the time (there is a bit of fingercrossing as Frodo gets near Mt. Doom). One of my friends actually got bored of it, claiming it was too easy!

The numbers you point out are also true to the book. Each evil unit represents a much large horde of individuals than the good units. The enemy was nearly immumerable. For instance, after Gondor's big win in Minas Tirith, it is pointed out that such a victory was akin to defeating one finger out of 10, with the other nine still headed towards you. At the end, what was left of the Gondor army staged a suicidal diversion attack near the gates of Mordor. Basically having the good guys win is supposed to be completely improbable and incredible, so that's what you've got to contend with in the scenario too.

PS- I found bribing too potent of a strategy, and having stone trolls fighting side by side with dunedain too improbable.
[This message has been edited by Harlan (edited June 13, 2000).]

[Xin Yu]

Harlan: I can still win it.

But I won't tell you anything more about my strategy.

Just fix the events.txt then I'll publish my strategy guide.

[Xin Yu]

quote: Originally posted by Harlan on 06-12-2000 05:29 PM Bwa-ha-ha-ha! Have I foiled Xin Yu and his his clever, scheming ways? Must he fight his way to Barad-dur the "old-fashioned" way?

OK, I don't want to keep it secret anymore. Although you do not allow 'alliance' trick, 'peace' trick works the same way. I can sign a peace treaty with Isengard (and get 200 dollars from it), then my troops will enter its city radii and they'll be teleported to the Ents city all the same.