Cold War Screenshots

[Black Dragon]

Two Questions:

1. You said 4 players- why wouldn't a 5th player being the Arabs work? It might be fun playing them, having to play the two sides off each other to achieve your aims...

2. Shouldn't the Chinese also be able to have their own diplomacy rather than just sucking up to the Soviets? Remember, the real China split with the Soviets and the two ended up as eventual enemies...

[Fast_Eddie]

Well, there aren't 100 unique units. There are probably around 90 unique units, because there are generic units like Infantry (There are 5 infantry units, this is just one for the nuetrals, arabs, and third world nations), the fort, oversea base, frieght, paratrooper, airlift unit, transport, and the partison. I guess that makes around 95 unique units (that includes the unique ships).

It's really not that hard to figure out, as most units follow the simple number progression like the Soviet MBTs. T-34, T-54/55, T-62, T-64/72, T-80, T-90. I plan on there being LOTS of documentation, so people should haven't much of a problem with it.

quote: You said 4 players - why wouldn't a 5th player being the Arabs work? It might be fun playing them, having to play the two sides off each other to achieve your aims...

Yeah, it would definately be possible to play as the Arabs, but they wouldn't have much to do except barter with the Soviet and Americans while trying to eradicate the Jews. I would hope that people would go for the Chinese and the West Euros before trying the Arabs.

quote: Shouldn't the Chinese also be able to have their own diplomacy rather than just sucking up to the Soviets? Remember, the real China split with the Soviets and the two ended up as eventual enemies...

The Chinese can try to have their own diplomacy, but until the 70's you've gotta suck up to the Soviets because the Americans still recognize the Nationalist government in Taiwan (there are no negotiations until 1970). That's when they began to argue with Soviet policies. The Chinese would be smart to stick with the Soviets, as they cannot use American equipment. I know it's mean, but at the same time it's agood incentive.

[Mao]

Will there be any diplomatic bribing for the player? Since we all know the AI does it anyway?

[Fast_Eddie]

In what sense? There are no spy units if you mean like that, but with the advanced diplomatic featues of multi-player, you can do just about anything like that.

[Eternal]

Does the infantry improve over time? That is, I suppose in the beginning not all infantry has trucks to move in, but later on do they gain more move points? I usually make Infantry motorized, except for mountain/light/leg infantry.

Another thing is that the USSR didn't just throw away tanks and stuff, so you'll have to keep almost every Soviet unit on... T-54/55s were still in Category C units in the 80s. You can make up for this in part by not including some, like the T-64 and T-80, which were not significantly superior to earlier models.

I'm also interested in the navies... Are you including particular classes of ships, like "Typhoon class" (USSR) vs "Ohio class" (US) ot just making "Soviet sub" vs "US sub"?

[Michael Daumen]

Actually the full complement of 7 nations (plus barbarians) are on his ToT map. But the city amounts are not roughly equal - an Arab human would have no trouble overrunning Israel.

And there are plans for specific cold war ship classes.
[This message has been edited by Michael Daumen (edited August 11, 2000).]

[Mao]

quote: Originally posted by Fast_Eddie on 08-11-2000 03:32 AM In what sense? There are no spy units if you mean like that, but with the advanced diplomatic featues of multi-player, you can do just about anything like that.

Yeah, I meant spies, you know; like the CIA vs. KGB kinda thing.

[Fast_Eddie]

Well, I'm still trying to get the first decade working properly, but the Infantry would only have one movement point, until probably the 60s or 70s. But then again, that defeats much of the purpose of building APCs and AFVs. I guess things like that will all be ironed out later on.

Yeah, I made sure about much of that. I think that the T-54/55s get thrown away in the 80s to make way for the T-90 in the 90's. Most of the Soviet units will stay around longer than the American units. Yeah, they were that much better, but I have some awesome unit images I want to use for those.

Yes, I've attempted to incorporate the different classes of ships, as well as the strengths and weaknesses of each nationality (Soviets have very good cruisers and heavy cruisers, Americans have carriers). Unfortuately, I've been able to find next to nothing on early Soviet ships. It would help me get this done a lot faster if somebody knew where I could find pictures and information on that kind of thing.

BTW, there are both Typhoon and Ohio classes.

Yes, barbarians have the same color as the nuetrals. I did't want people to thing that just because a nation is barbarian they could get away with taking it.

Damn, I wouldn't know how to simulate a CIA v. KGB thing. IIRC, the KGB was actually made in the 70s. So there would be action for like 20 years.
[This message has been edited by Fast_Eddie (edited August 11, 2000).]

[Eternal]

I can help with the early Soviet ships. I have a book that has their specifications, numbers, and also black and white pictures. Before I go to the trouble of scanning them all, I'll send a E-mail you a list of them and find which ones you will include.
[This message has been edited by Eternal (edited August 11, 2000).]

[Black Dragon]

Well I think it might be fun to play as the Arabs- in addition to wiping Israel off the Face of the Earth- there is action in Turkey, right? They could intervene there-- And Iran could also be another place to mess around- they could also move into Africa- try to build that Arab State stretching from Turkey to Gibraltar- they could move into Africa- Help the Russians out in Afghanistan- lots of good things could be done..

[Fast_Eddie]

Cool. Well, since I know practically nothing about the ships of the early cold war (bah, my area of expertise is not naval warfare...). Do you think you could just find out which destroyer, cruiser and submarine was the most important of the 50's and 60's and then send a picture? Man, that would probably shave off a month of my searching...

Yeah, there is fighting in Turkey. The Russians are gonnatry to take it, and so are the Euros, so you wil definately have some competition. It'll take awhile before the Arabs could build up enough to take over French North Africa, so they would have to wait until the 60's to get there. BTW, Afgahnistan is already Arab, so I dunno if you'd actually want the Soviets to get in there.

[SixArmedMan]

Hm, doesn't China's role in the whole game seem kinda' dull? Despite the historical accuracy of it all, being only to engage in diplomacy around 1970 and sucking up to the USSR doesn't sound that thrilling. I know there's the fight with the nationalists (Who are probably only barbarians anyways) but everything after that seems, well, dull and hopeless. Maybe there role's a little more prominent than what you've made it out to be and we just haven't really gotten the picture yet??

[Fast_Eddie]

China's role, is to achieve stablilty and modernize to the point where it can break free of Soviet control. As in real life, China was key to balance the American-European alliance, so they are there for that reason. China has to do everything. Build up it's industry, it's army, and stabalize the region to the point where they can complete the first two objectives. IMO, that's a pretty tough job. At the same time, you have most of the industrialized world against you because you're communist.

So, not only does half of the world hate you, but you have to construct a modern society from essentially nothing. It would be a desperate situation, and certainly not one for a player who gets frustrated often. I think it would be fun to do, especially once China got big enough. But then again, most people would rather be the ones who discover all the techologies and have a fairly built up industrial base.

But yeah, China wouldn't be everybody's number 1 choice to play.

[C0ckney]

I am really going to have to get ToT now

looking good

[S_Palpatine]

Chinas role would be my favorite one by far(in a multiplayer game) if the soviet player is very.... generous it would be fun to suck up to a human controlled player.
Most of the time the two countries didnt get along, and it hurt them both, so with two rational players at the head of each state I assume they could become very dominent.