Test of Time vs. Fantastic Worlds

[Rune]

Hi.

I haven't been on this forum for a long time, mainly because I rarely play Civ anymore (shame, shame, yes I know). Anyway, I was considering getting Test of Time and perhaps make another try at the Wheel of Time scenario I started on years ago.

So what I would like to know is what are the differences between Fantastic Worlds and ToT when it comes to scenario creation? Which would you recommend?


Btw, has anyone tried GifXtractor with ToT? Does it work, or have they altered the dlls too?

[Gothmog]

GifXtractor will work with ToT files. ToT uses the same DLL's as FW for leader portraits and what not.

ToT has several advantages over FW
1. an expanded event language
2. you can use up to 4 maps
3. 16 bit graphics
4. the event stack is larger, so you can code more events

ToT has these disadvantages
1. The unit shield was changed in such a way that it makes it very hard to tell who owns a unit.
2. The combat animation was disabled, so it is very hard to tell where combat is happening.

To me these last two features are deal breakers, so I don't play ToT, it's too hard on my eyes.

Also in ToT, and I don't classify this a plus or minus, there are no in-game editors.

Probably Techumseh will post here with some reasons why you should use ToT, so stay tuned.

[Mercator]

Getting ToT is a must! I must admit, I haven't quite gotten into it yet, I haven't really tried those extra games it offers, and the graphics are somewhat dark (and I'm too lazy to change them), but considering the amount of money I paid for it, it's more than worth it.

I have to recommend another program for ToT DLL's (unfortunately ), namely url=http://www.users.on.net/johnson/resourcehacker/]Resource Hacker[/url]. That program is a "true" resource editor, so the filesize of the images is no longer an issue (i.e. GIFs can also be larger than the original). It only works for 32-bit files (i.e. MGE and ToT) though.

[Rune]

Thanks for the tip about Resource Hacker. Looks really promising (even though it might make GifX obsolete )

Have the units.gif, terrain.gif etc. also been changed to 16bit color? If so, does that make them more difficult to work with?

How does the four maps work? Can you have different terrain/city/unit graphics for each of the maps, or do they share the same graphic files?

Is there no indication at all where battle occurs? Sounds really strange to me...

[Dr. Nick]

Where can I rip ToT?

[LDiCesare]

Each map has its own graphics. Units are allowed to go on certain maps as listed in rules.txt, and may or may not travel by thmeselves (rules.txr again). Cities are map-independent (civ-related). There definitely is a way to see where combat occurs. It is so natural to me that I can't think there is no animation. What are the spr files for? But then I didn't play other civ2 versions, and civ (1) had no anim at all so I don't miss that.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
There definitely is a way to see where combat occurs. It is so natural to me that I can't think there is no animation. What are the spr files for? But then I didn't play other civ2 versions, and civ (1) had no anim at all so I don't miss that.

It was the function of the .spr files to play the attack animation of each of the individual units - hence the anims in civ2 weren't used anymore. As there wasn't a handy editor to create new .spr anims for new units, ToT was left with any new static units having no anims.
I'd thought the patch had taken care of this. ie: select the turn off animations option => re-enabled the original attack anim in the icons.gif (even if it was buggy and the .spr's weren't always disabled) but I guess I was wrong ...

El Awrence: I don't think its abandonware yet so you might have trouble getting it "semi-legally". But there's this place called E-bay...

[Gothmog]

The ToT graphics format is 16 bit or 24 bit bmp. Gif is out because it has to be 8 bits although the title.gif is still supported (don't think title.bmp would work).

The spr files are the animations for the game included units. If you make custom units, you have to disable the animations. One way is by the game option, the other way is to get rid off the spr files by deleting them, renaming them, moving them another directory. The game will run without them. It uses the images in units.bmp in that case.

[Dr. Nick]

I can't afford to purchase anything in dollars or over the net as international credit cards here have been... suspended indefinetly.

[techumseh]

Hi Rune, thanks for the program. It does indeed work with ToT. I used it to change a number of gifs in several of the dll.'s in the ToT scenario "Red October," available from my site, here:

http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/

Originally posted by Gothmog
ToT has several advantages over FW
1. an expanded event language
2. you can use up to 4 maps
3. 16 bit graphics
4. the event stack is larger, so you can code more events

All true, though this hardly does justice to the increased range and number of events now possible with ToT. ToT events are really in another league altogether. The possibilities have only begun to be explored.

Other specific features include an impassible terrain flag and override flag, invisible units, unbribable units and undisbandable units. Units and techs can be made civilization specific. Plus a few other odds and ends.

ToT has these disadvantages
1. The unit shield was changed in such a way that it makes it very hard to tell who owns a unit.
2. The combat animation was disabled, so it is very hard to tell where combat is happening.

I agree. Given that units are also 50% taller, it creates a cluttered looking map at times. Hardly a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.

Also in ToT, and I don't classify this a plus or minus, there are no in-game editors.

Me neither. It's a little more fiddley, but not a big problem. IMHO, what kept ToT from having more staying power (other than being released in the looming shadow of Civ3) was the failure to include an animated sprite editor. Since you can't edit the sprites, which are of poor quality anyway, all scenarios and mods must replace them with static graphics, ala FW/MGE. You just have to look at the fan creation work being done on Civ3 animated units here on Poly and over at CivFanatics to realize what a mistake this was.

So Rune, if you're looking for another project, decoding the SPR. file and developing a workable sprite editor for ToT would make you a legitimate hero in my books!

Probably Techumseh will post here with some reasons why you should use ToT, so stay tuned.

What are the chances?

[techumseh]

Carl, check your private messages.

[Rune]

Originally posted by techumseh
Hi Rune, thanks for the program. It does indeed work with ToT. I used it to change a number of gifs in several of the dll.'s in the ToT scenario "Red October," available from my site, here:

http://www.tecumseh.150m.com/

Nice to hear my little program is still being used. Does that mean that the ToT dlls still use 8 bit gifs for graphics? IIRC GifX doesn't support bmp, but I might be wrong.

Other specific features include an impassible terrain flag and override flag, invisible units, unbribable units and undisbandable units. Units and techs can be made civilization specific. Plus a few other odds and ends.

Sounds great. Ebay, here I come...

So Rune, if you're looking for another project, decoding the SPR. file and developing a workable sprite editor for ToT would make you a legitimate hero in my books!

Has there been done any research on this so far? It would be a great feature for GifX... Don't get too high hopes though. I have no experience whatsoever with animation files (though I didn't know anything about gifs when I started GifX either...). However, if someone sends me an SPR file at rune@krokodille.com I will at least take a look and see what I can find out.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Rune

Has there been done any research on this so far? It would be a great feature for GifX... Don't get too high hopes though. I have no experience whatsoever with animation files (though I didn't know anything about gifs when I started GifX either...). However, if someone sends me an SPR file at rune@krokodille.com I will at least take a look and see what I can find out.

A poster who went by the username of DracoOmega (IIRC) began some such enterprize a while ago. No idea how far he got with it though. There was a thread about it in the ToT forum.

[Rune]

I just discovered that there exists an official spr tool for CTP. Has anybody tried it with ToT?

[Mercator]

I just had a look at that, but I don't think it's any good for ToT. "Sprite" is a pretty general term, used for just about every pixel-based graphics resource, but they can all be in very different formats.

Oh yes, and the images in the DLLs are still GIFs. It's just the regular graphics that have changed from 256 color GIFs/BMPs to 16/24-bit BMPs.