Scenario League's Mod

[St Leo]

This has been proposed a few times before but most of the proposals were impractical or dumb.:-)

The basic premise is that all the experienced unit balancers, tech tree creators, and graphics artists from the Scenario League pool their resources to create the ultimate mod for CivII for run of the mill players to enjoy. This is not a one person job (So don't just tell me 'Great idea, you do it.') and there is demand out there as the majority of players just do Random Games.

CivII was a great game with an epic feel and grand vision. However, it skimps the exciting period between Legions and Crusaders and has many other flaws.

To start of the debate and (hopefully) deluge of ideas and suggestions, here's a very rough list of possible units:

Dang this forum to Hades! Here's a <A HREF="http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/personal/scenleaguemod.htm">link</A> instead.
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St. Leo http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/ http://www.sidgames.com/forums/
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited December 14, 1999).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited December 14, 1999).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited December 14, 1999).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited December 14, 1999).]</font>
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited December 14, 1999).]</font>

[Michael Daumen]

Are you proposing some sort of brainstorming forum here? If so, then

i) I would have two nukes, one an ICBM that does not have the "missile" flag (when it attacks it still dies in the blast but won't be carried in a sub) and an SLBM that comes along in a later tech, has a lesser range, and with the missile flag is sub-borne.

ii) Maybe a biplane and a jet as some other steps up the fighter ladder.

iii) I would seriously condsider replacing carriers and marines altogher as the AI does not use them well (and maybe even paratroopers).

iv) Satelite technology (not necessarily a new unit)

[William Keenan]

You can count me in, I'll do the random barbarians!

Good ideas Michael. I would add to the list fighters with a two turn range.

[benedetti]

Tovarich St Leo,

From your list there is a significat gap between halberdiers and musketeers. For more than one century, the pair pikeman (very very long pikes) / arquebusier was unbeatable. Advances in musket design made the pair obsolete.

[techumseh]

I've altered my tech tree in two ways: delay republic until after monarchy by making literacy and monarchy the pre-reqs, and delay steam engine until after magnetism by making magnetism and invention the pre-reqs.

[Mercator]

Although there's enough space to add 11 more units, this wil probably not suffice. Everyone has his own favourite time period. Michael Daumen proposed quite a few new modern units, and there will undoubtedly come some people here who think there should be more kinds of tanks (the WWII types), but also people who'd rather see some more ancient/medieval units added.
Wouldn't it be a nice idea to develop several different modpacks, all focussing on different time periods.
That way a lot more techs and units can be used.

[Michael Daumen]

Mercator's idea should work with units, but not technologies. The AI will disband units made obsolete by a new tech, so later modpacks can have more advanced units where older ones were. But the same is not true with respect to technologies. Here we are stuck with the slots we have and no more.

So, are there any techs we can remove? I'll start off with Fusion Power and Genetic Engineering at the end of the spectrum. As far as the start, I have always felt that between Alphabet, Writing and Literacy one of these could be consolidated into the remaining two. And the same might be possible with Feudalism and Chivalry, Tactics and Leadership.

As far as city improvments are concerned, I have replaced libraries with theaters because it fits better in the ancient world.

[William Keenan]

Don't forget there are 11 unused techs, X1 .. X7, U1 .. U3, and Plu

[blackclove]

Also don't forget that we can use Nemo's trick of having units that are automatically upgraded when we switch events files. It might be fun to have an ancient period, a renaissance period, and a modern period where units are automatically upgraded to the new stats at a certain year. That would also have the added effect of making your enemies more interesting foes once you vastly outpace them in technology. Because you can change the requirements for building units, you can make units obsolete in one time period and then make them un-obsolete in the next time period, with a new tech requirement.

Now tell me that wouldn't be cool.

I also think we can learn a lot from LeMay's modpack, reviewed on this site. I especially liked modern infantry, as I recall.

[St Leo]

Nice to see such a great response. To have more unit slots to mess around with we could use ToT instead of FW but I am not sure if that's such a great idea.

Here the link again with a new table.

Personally I would love to see a more detailed medieval period and a less euro-centric wonder collection. Keep 'em suggestions coming.:-)

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[St Leo]

BTW, you man need to hit reload.

[Stefan Härtel]

Here's what I did to my game:
-new tech: "Martial Arts". Prequisites: Warrior Code and Monotheism. Allows Ninjas. Ninja, Fun, 0, 2.,1, 7a,0d, 1h,4f, 4,0, 0, U2, 001001000000000

U2 is taken by: "Suicide attack" or something. Preqs: Advanced Flight and Tactics. Allows Kamikazes to be built.

Kamikaze, nil, 1, 10.,1, 15a,0d, 1h,3f, 10,0, 0, U1, 001000000000000

Another new unit: Samurai. Prequisite is Feudalism.

Samurai, Met, 0, 2.,0, 5a,3d, 2h,2f, 4,0, 0, Feu, 000010000000000

I wanted to put in a little Japanese flavour once. I have these changes out again.

Other suggestions: Axemen, Eurofighter. More to come if you want.

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

[Stefan Härtel]

Another suggestion for a Japanese flair: New advance: Sumo. Requires Martial Arts and Chivalry. Allows Sumo courts (Colosseum) to be built.
I am working on a small Japanese MOD in which all these things (and more) will be.

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Follow the masses!
30,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

[Stefu]

Whew... for a while I thought you were gonna implement Sumoka units.

Enner way, I suggest that you separate Phalanx and Legion from Bronze- and Iron Working. Instead get advances like "Military Discipline" or "Standing Army" or something like that. I just find it strange that every civilization that gets these advances would immediately build units hundreds of years ahead of its time. Besides, warriors would at last have some use.

[St Leo]

But of course.:-)

BTW guys, if I make this alone we'll end up with merely a great units file and stats at best. Tech tree writing is not something I enjoy doing (I once translated the tree from ImpI into CivII. It came out pretty good but took forever to do and I do not relish repeating the experience.) so this should be a team effort.:-)

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St. Leo
http://ziggurat.sidgames.com/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/