History experts needed (Narvik Campaign)

[fairline]

The Roman numerals are the Staffel number of each Geschwader. As an example, JG 26 (fighter wing/group 26) consisted of Stabs/JG 26, I/JG26, II/JG26, III/JG 26 - ie HQ and 'squadrons' I, II and III.

[jim panse]

Ok. Thanks for that advice.

[Case]

Originally posted by Kobra
@Case (or anyone else for that matter): Would you mind telling me a bit more on those goto events? Are there any guides made on that issue?

I don't *think* that there's any guide. Some basic points though are:

1) The AI doesn't like using them and will ignore them at the first opportunity.

2) In particular, every time a significant event occurs (ie, a city is captured or a unit is destroyed) the AI seems to 'forget' the goto orders.

3) As a result, you need to include events reinforcing the goto order several times in each turn. ie, have an event where every time a unit is destroyed, the goto order is issued. In the Cruel Sea, every time the Germans sink a common British ship an event is triggered where the goto orders are reissued to the British. This results in the orders being continiously reissued, especially at times when the AI tends to forget them.

4) Furthermore, goto orders seem to only work effectively when the units are ordered to move in roughtly the same direction that the AI would move them anyway. They work so well in The Cruel Sea and Red Front because all the AI cities are at the left of the map and all the enemy human cities are at the right of the map. If the goto events weren't there, the AI would still send most of it's 'attack' role units to the east. The goto events just increase the percentage of such units which are sent and directs which part of the east the units end up in.

5) Goto orders aren't delicate instruments. They're useful in getting a ship from New York to London or a Panzer from Kiev to Stalingrad, but don't work well in terrain with higher densities of cities and the like.

6) Using sucessive goto orders to direct units on more complex, non-linear paths is very tricky to achieve but is possible.

7) As such, goto events should be considered a useful means of directing a flood, and not any kind of a precision instrument.

I hope that that helps

[Case]

Originally posted by fairline
The Roman numerals are the Staffel number of each Geschwader. As an example, JG 26 (fighter wing/group 26) consisted of Stabs/JG 26, I/JG26, II/JG26, III/JG 26 - ie HQ and 'squadrons' I, II and III.

Am I correct in thinking that the geschwader was the equivalent to an Army regiment, with the squadrons being battalion equivalents? (as they are in Soviet-pattern air forces)

[fairline]

A Staffel was more or less equivalent to an RAF (or RAAF!) Squadron, ie 12 - 16 planes. IIRC this was subdivided into Rotte (Sp) of 4 aircraft each, which corresponded to an RAF Flight. I guess the Army equivalent of Staffel would be a Squadron of Cavalry or a Company of Infantry. A Geschwader was the loose equivalent of an RAF Wing, although the former was a fixed formation whereas different Squadrons in the RAF would constitute a given Wing at various times of the War. I suppose the Army equivalent to a Wing / Geschwader would be a battalion.

I suppose this stacks up when you consider a Squadron leader was equivalent to an army major and a Wing Commander was equivalent to a Lt Colonel. The Luftwaffe commanders of the Staffel and geschwader were 1 rank lower IIRC, ie Hauptmann for a Staffel and Major for a Geschwader.

[Eivind IV]

I need another word of advice; Should I place the german units in Denmark? If they are, and transported to Norway, it will be way too easy for the germans.

[Case]

Originally posted by fairline
A Staffel was more or less equivalent to an RAF (or RAAF!) Squadron, ie 12 - 16 planes. IIRC this was subdivided into Rotte (Sp) of 4 aircraft each, which corresponded to an RAF Flight. I guess the Army equivalent of Staffel would be a Squadron of Cavalry or a Company of Infantry. A Geschwader was the loose equivalent of an RAF Wing, although the former was a fixed formation whereas different Squadrons in the RAF would constitute a given Wing at various times of the War. I suppose the Army equivalent to a Wing / Geschwader would be a battalion.

OK, thanks for that.

BTW, why the exclamation mark empahsising RAAF squadrons? I'll have you know that the RAAF had over 50 squadrons from late 1942 onwards, and ended the war as the fourth largest air force in the world (not counting the USN as seperate and after the Luftwaffe and an Japanese air forces were destroyed ).

I need another word of advice; Should I place the german units in Denmark? If they are, and transported to Norway, it will be way too easy for the germans.

If the scenario is intended for play against computer Germans, then have the Germans start off in Denmark, as this will make the scenario work better. Otherwise, have the Germans start as close to their historical locations as is practical.

[Eivind IV]

Originally posted by Case
If the scenario is intended for play against computer Germans, then have the Germans start off in Denmark, as this will make the scenario work better. Otherwise, have the Germans start as close to their historical locations as is practical.

I have placed all units in their historical locations, with some minor improvisations here and there to better the game play.

I'm now as good as finished, just doing the last polish over the events file and rules file.

I just have one last question:

Royal Air Force:

Most allied air missions over Norway was by RAF-units from the British mainland and Orkney, and by the Fleet Air Arm, from the carriers. The following air-force units were based in Norway at one time or another.

263.Squadron 18 Gladiators. Based at lake east of Åndalsnes 25-27.April but quickly neutralized. Later (26-27.May) 3 Gladiators of the squadron operated from Bodö.
46.Squadron Hurricanes. Based at Bardufoss, Narvik
11.Observer screen

At this page: http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/nor...reference.html it shows the royal airforce based in Norway. But most of the airial operations were flown from Britain. Were can I find information on how many planes were engaged in the Norwegian campain based in Britain?

[Eivind IV]

*Puh*

Now I have worked non stop with the polish and everything is finished, with the exeption of the above posted. Please help me, I want to finish this crap!

[Case]

Originally posted by Kobra
I just have one last question:

At this page: http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/nor...reference.html it shows the royal airforce based in Norway. But most of the airial operations were flown from Britain. Were can I find information on how many planes were engaged in the Norwegian campain based in Britain?

Have you looked in the online version of the British offical history? That kind of information is normally included in excessive amounts of detail.

From memory, there were something like four(?) squadrons of Hurricanes which operated out of Norway during the campaign.

[Eivind IV]

I made some searches on the net, without any results, just the same ol'. Were in fact is this british official history site?

It would be a shame to now abandon the historical authenticitity I have in the placements of all the other units. Only the RAF remains.

[Eivind IV]

Please!? I only need to give the allies a couple of planes by events and this is all finished. In order to do this I need to know how many planes they had engaged in the campaign operating from Britain.

The closest I've got is this:
http://world.std.com/~Ted7/minoraf.htm#norge

http://world.std.com/~Ted7/altcamp1.htm#cNorway

This was probably the closest (under air operations):
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/U...-Norway-B.html

Close, but no sigar, right??

[Boco]

Okay, this is my week for digging ancient boardgames out of my freezing attic. Found one called Narvik. It has a fairly detailed OOB, but I can't vouch for its accuracy. My impression is that it's pretty much on the mark.

Narvik has many air units, but doesn't define their size. Probably detachment or squadron. Maybe by listing the information on LW, Norwegian AF, and FAA units, I can give you enough so that you can deduce the game's accuracy and possibly the RAF component you crave.

• ALLIES
• At start: 1x Gladiator 1 (Norwegian near Oslo)
• Apr 9-11 reinforcements: 3x Skua, 1x Blenheim 1F (NF), 1x Wellington 1C (NB), 1x Whitley (NB)
• Apr 12-15: Furious (cap=2 units), 2x Swordfish*, 1x Blenheim I, then listed under Bomber Command (an off board airfield) 1x Blenheim I, 1x Whitley (NB), 1x Hampdon, 1x Wellington 1C (NB)
• Apr 24-27: Glorious (cap=4 units), Ark Royal (cap=6 units), 2x Sea Gladiators*, 6x Swordfish*, 1x Gladiator*
• May 6-9: 1x Hurricane 1
• GERMANS
• At Start: 4x Ju88A, 6x He111H, 3x Me110C, 21x Ju52, 1x Ju52 floatplane, 3x He115 floatplane
• April 12-15: 4x Ju87B, 3x Me110C, 3x Me109E
• April 16-19: 5x Ju88A
• April 23-23: 6x Ju87B
• Abbreviations: * = carrier air units, NF = night fighter, NB = night bomber

All British air units except 4 Bomber Command units start in Hatson Field, Orkneys. UK based units seem to be hamstrung by range. Can only bomb Denmark and SW Norway.

Overall, the game lists land OOB's at the battalion scale, with scattered companies of specialist units. If you need it let me know, but it sounds like you don't. It has a couple of interesting rules: Germans can form arty units from captured Norwegian arty, stranded sailors can form infantry units, airstrips can be laid on frozen lakes. There's a lot of detail about how many planes can land where.

Good luck!

[Case]

Originally posted by Kobra
This was probably the closest (under air operations):
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/U...-Norway-B.html

That's the offical history I was talking about. The hyperlinked index of all references to the RAF is at: https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/...#royalairforce From just a very quick look at a few of the references I spotted several mentions of what squadrons were available and where they were based

[skipper]

http://research.airuniv.edu/papers/ay1997/acsc/97-0146B.pdf