Europa Universalis III in Production

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by BeBro


It improves modding gfx under certain conditions - and the conditions are set by the developer.

It is 'cause it is.

I just read another good argument for the move over to 3D: Paradox wants to sell, no shops are likely to accept a 2D strategy game these days.

They seem to be focusing more on selling it direct through their website and side-steping publishers and retail outlets anyways.

[Nikolai]

That's where they earn the most per sale, but it's not where they sell the most.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by General Ludd

It is 'cause it is.

Sure. If they want to have a 3d engine 2d units are out. And who else would decide about the engine if not the developer? The fact that some don't like 3d is another thing (and let's face it - it's not per se a superior argument for 2d).

Actually I would like an excellent 2d game as well, I just don't understand the "OMG 3d is teh evil!" attitude. It all depends how it's done finally.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by BeBro
........
Actually I would like an excellent 2d game as well, I just don't understand the "OMG 3d is teh evil!" attitude. It all depends how it's done finally.

Yeah your right, i guess i'm just over hasty when i see another strat title try the 3D thing(Empire Earth/Children of the Nile/new settlersII/any of the recent slew of roman building games etc).
Having had a look at the screenshots, i can agree they are currently much uglier than EU2's 2D, but i also see it doesnt look like they are going to be using 3D to provide the player a 'camera to zoom right down into the action - just like being there!(tm)'.

That approach will kill any strat title right there - always has, always will. Strat isnt about manipulating a rotating camera.

As long as they keep the view strategic(ie 2D basicaly) it shouldnt get in the way of the game. lets see.

Heres a challange: name a really good strategy game that used a full 3D view(zoom in, spin around etc)

[BeBMan]

I liked that Dune 3d one - how was that called exactly? It was the first full 3d strat game I played and I was positively surprised. But yeah, it was scifi RTS, so difficult to compare to Civ or EU, and certainly not that complex....

I think the shots of EU III look now very good, much better than the first. Sure I'd like to see some other things here and there, but overall it looks nice now. I mean the map in Eu2 wasn't exactly beautiful (it worked good though). If pt. III is also a great game of course we can't say yet. But I don't think it will be good or bad just because of the 3d engine.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by Nikolai
I just read another good argument for the move over to 3D: Paradox wants to sell, no shops are likely to accept a 2D strategy game these days.

I dont think this is a correct reason entirely. The shops will sell/stock any game you want them to, you just have to pay them for shelf space.
So in theory if a billionare wanted a laugh they could release a load of 15 year old(technology wise) games, buy all the shelf space to knock other game competitors of the shelves and next time you went looking for a new game, all you'd find would be stuff like this:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/wizards-castle/screenshots

Its why indie developers get shut out the mainstream supply outlets, they cant afford to compete with the mainstream big publishers for shelf space

There may be an issue with 'regular' customers not buying a 2D game from a shop store as much as a 3D title though.

@ BeBro,

ok Dune 3D:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/emperorbattlefordune?q=Emperor:%20Battle%20for%20Dune

It did get some pretty decent reviews, still as you say it does look more like an rts than a particularly deep strat like civ/eu. I was going to offer up Star Wars: Force Commander, its in the same genre as the Dune game though(rts) and wasn't as good:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/star-wars-force-commander

Still the point i was making is a valid one - real strat and 3D are incredibly hard to combine succesfully, and its difficult to find positive examples. There might be a reason for this.

[Sandman]

I'm not particularly upset about the 3D, but I wish they'd gone for a more abstract style. It's OK for a map to look like a map.

[Kataphraktoi]

Originally posted by BeBro


Sure. If they want to have a 3d engine 2d units are out. And who else would decide about the engine if not the developer? The fact that some don't like 3d is another thing (and let's face it - it's not per se a superior argument for 2d).

Actually I would like an excellent 2d game as well, I just don't understand the "OMG 3d is teh evil!" attitude. It all depends how it's done finally.

But how does 3d make the game better? deeper? longer lasting?

The fact is, and has been pointed out several times now, 3d does NOT enhance the modding abilities for the game. Even I can and have created simple, crude graphics for 2d games that were usable-but 3d? I cant even begin to make a 3d graphic. I now cannot edit that aspect! LESS modibility.

The site says 3d makes the game easier to mod. All arguments about 3d being good or bad aside, that simply is not true. Its marketing talk.

[Nikolai]

It might be so that making new unit sprites doesn't improve, but other aspects, like modding the map, does. With EU2, the map couldn't be modded until Johan in a patch did massive amounts of job(in his free time btw) to give us the possibility of, IIRC, 400 new provinces. With EU3, that changes, now there's much easier to mod the map.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nikolai
It might be so that making new unit sprites doesn't improve, but other aspects, like modding the map, does. With EU2, the map couldn't be modded until Johan in a patch did massive amounts of job(in his free time btw) to give us the possibility of, IIRC, 400 new provinces. With EU3, that changes, now there's much easier to mod the map.

This is completely true. However, it has nothing to do with the game being 3D.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi

The fact is, and has been pointed out several times now, 3d does NOT enhance the modding abilities for the game. Even I can and have created simple, crude graphics for 2d games that were usable-but 3d? I cant even begin to make a 3d graphic. I now cannot edit that aspect! LESS modibility.

The fact is: I can. Ha! MORE moddability, OMFG teh proof!

Seriously, those who can make crude 2d gfx should be able to do crude 3d gfx as well, there are enough free 3d tools out there. The fact that some people suck at 3d is no argument, because they could learn to do it just as they learned at some point do handle 2d stuff.

[conmcb25]

3D is the way the world is going, whether we like it or not...............................

[Nikolai]

EU III release date announced

Europa Universalis scheduled to hit stores as holiday craze subside

New York, USA (November 9, 2006) – Paradox Interactive announced today that their biggest production to date, Europa Universalis III, will be shipping to stores on January 23, 2007 in North America with releases in Europe to follow on January 26.

The title has been rated E and 12+. A Collectors Edition will be available in limited numbers on key markets. The Collectors Edition with a suggested retail price of $49.99, 499 SEK/NOK/DKK and 49,99 EUR will include a complete strategy guide among other exclusive assets. The standard version has a suggested retail price of $39.99 399 SEK/NOK/DKK and 39,99 EUR.

Europa Universalis III is an epic strategy game of centuries that delves deeply into the areas of exploration, trade, warfare and diplomacy. The open-ended gameplay allow for an impressive number of choices and outcomes as players take control of a nation and guide it through the ages to become a great global empire.

Features include:
• Over 300 years of game play by starting at ANY date between 1453 and 1789.
• Flexible nation building: decide your own form of government, the structure of your society, trade politics and much more. The possibilities are endless.
• Take history in your hands and call personalities like Sir Isaac Newton, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart or René Descartes as advisors to your court.
• A lush topographic map in full 3D allows for a rich and complete worldview, and contains more than 1700 provinces and sea zones.
• More than 250 countries to lead during the game’s extensive time span.
• More than a thousand historical leaders and over 4000 historical Monarchs at your disposal
• Manage more than 100 individual unit troops to secure as much power as possible.
• Co-operative multiplayer mode that allows several players to work together to control a single nation
• Complete customization, Europa Universalis III gives you the chance to customize and mod practically anything your heart may desire. Join the constantly growing and incredibly talented Paradox modding community!

http://www.europauniversalis3.com

'

Much sooner than I expected! Too bad that the price is that high, Paradox games tend to cost much less. But 499 NOK (equals ~78 USD) is normal for a pc game in Norway, console games tend to cost 93 USD/599 NOK. Still, Paradox games usually cost 399 NOK/62 USD...

[BeBMan]

Yeah, just read it End of january is nice - of course it's a scandal that evil Americans get it some days earlier

[Nikolai]

Yeah, Paradox is Swedish after all...