Europa Universalis III in Production

[Nikolai]

The reason they have gone over to 3D is not to make it pretty, honestly how many graphics geeks would want a flat 3D map as EU3 and Civ4 has? It's not their kind of game. Paradox has said repeatedly that the main reason to go over to 3D is because it makes it much easier to mod the game (and probably make it too).

[General Ludd]

3D doesn't make the game easier to mod. It is easier for fans to create 2d graphics than 3d renderings and textures. The new engine makes it easier to mod - it could of employed 2d graphics and still be just as, if not more, modable. The fact that it is 3d has zero relevance to modability.

[Nikolai]

That's not what the devs says though. I tend to trust them more.

[Nikolai]

I can't search the official site since the search function is disabled(and google sucks at getting relevant results with their site: search fuinction), but I found this in an interview with Johan at FiringSquad:

FiringSquad: What benefits will players see from the move to 3D? Do you find development easier with 3D or 2D?

Johan: What we can do with the map and graphics gives us a greater range of options for the player, which gives a more rewarding game experience. For development, our new 3d engine makes almost everything easier to develop on, with the map being a major advantage. In our old engine, making a single border change required a full rebuild of files, taking a few hours of manual work and a few hours of processing power. With our new engine, it’s a simple bitmap change, and a minute extra to recalculate map files when starting.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nikolai
That's not what the devs says though. I tend to trust them more.

It doesn't matter really matter who says what on the subject - it's simple logic that three dimensional graphics have nothing inherently to do with the modability of the game. It's the graphics engine that determines that, regardless of what graphics it incorporates. EU3 is using a new graphics engine that is more modable and happens to have 3d graphics. That does not mean that it had to be 3d in order to achieve that modability. A 2d graphics engine could just as easily of been designed that would give the same benefits.

[BeBMan]

Actually some things are indeed easier to do in 3d than in 2d. Take fore example Eu2's unit sprites: you have to render images for each direction a unit could move separately, and that for all types of anim (walk, fight). A unit made of a 3d object does not need that. You don't even have to pre-render images of it, the game engine does it in realtime.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by BeBro
Actually some things are indeed easier to do in 3d than in 2d. Take fore example Eu2's unit sprites: you have to render images for each direction a unit could move separately, and that for all types of anim (walk, fight). A unit made of a 3d object does not need that. You don't even have to pre-render images of it, the game engine does it in realtime.

1) You can make a 2d engine that does not require directional sprites.

2) Having to Create the 3d object and texturing it is not neccisarily a beneficial trade off in this regard anyways.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by General Ludd
1) You can make a 2d engine that does not require directional sprites.

Sure, you can also leave out gfx at all and make a text adventure

But they had directional sprites in earlier 2d games, and it was clear from the start that any new game would certainly not fall behind the standard of gfx they already had. So non-directional sprites simply weren't an option for EU III.

2) Having to Create the 3d object and texturing it is not neccisarily a beneficial trade off in this regard anyways.

The 2d sprites in EU2 are exactly made in the same way - they're 3d objects, pre-rendered into series of 2d images for each direction. So they had to create and texture the objects anyway. Just now they don't have two care about pre-rendering them, the game engine does it all, including all the zooming, turning etc.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by BeBro

The 2d sprites in EU2 are exactly made in the same way - they're 3d objects, pre-rendered into series of 2d images for each direction. So they had to create and texture the objects anyway. Just now they don't have two care about pre-rendering them, the game engine does it all, including all the zooming, turning etc.

That is only one way of making a 2d sprite... modders do not have to do that if they don't want to, and if something weird about the engine in EU2 made it neccisary to do that... then it could of been made so that it WASN'T.


This is a ridiculous argument. What next - CMYK colour schemes make games more modable? All that matters in terms of modability is the mechanics and adaptability of the engine. 3d or 2d has no baring on that at all - they are only superficial details.

[BeBMan]

How many unit sprites did you make for Eu2 or any other Paradox game that uses the same sprite system (HOI etc.)?

[El_Cid]

3D - oh dear.

May i be the first to say what we have here is the 'oblivionisation' of EU(this is not a good thing!).

If i'm wrong then please point and call me a stinking 'doubter'.

Why 3D? 3D never can help a strat game become a better strat game. It can however make the graphics look more modern(like in Civ4, and is Civ4 really better than CivII at what it aims to do?).

Even with the following the series has grown, EU is setup to be more a niche game(a succesfull one) than direct competition for Halo/Oblivion etc? makes no sense to me?? confusing - worrying even?

Time will tell(hope i'm wrong!)

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by BeBro
How many unit sprites did you make for Eu2 or any other Paradox game that uses the same sprite system (HOI etc.)?

I haven't made any for EU2, but I have made many for other games. It doesn't matter what specific problems there may of been with the modability of graphics in EU2 - they could easily be solved without making it 3D, and making it 3D does not inherently improve the modability.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by General Ludd

I haven't made any for EU2, but I have made many for other games. It doesn't matter what specific problems there may of been with the modability of graphics in EU2 - they could easily be solved without making it 3D, and making it 3D does not inherently improve the modability.

It improves modding gfx under certain conditions - and the conditions are set by the developer.

[Nikolai]

I just read another good argument for the move over to 3D: Paradox wants to sell, no shops are likely to accept a 2D strategy game these days.

[conmcb25]

Yep it has to be 3D.