expand or develop?

[lord of the mark]

Im Spain, upto about 1568.

Ive conquered pretty much to historical extent in Americas. Mexico, Incas, Chimmu (?). Also Cherokee. Plus colonized to round it out some - Panama, a couple of provinces bordering Mexico, several more adjacent to Cherokee lands, and several in Carib, plus a few trading posts.

In europe ive got spain, including navarre and Bearn. Ive got Milan and Mantua in Italy. Ive got the southern provinces only in the netherlands - flanders, brabant, Lux, Lorraine. I Holland et all stayed with Gelre, and i never inheritated them from Austria/CharlesV.

Also, Turkey is farther away than in actual history - Venice has the west side of the Balkans - no Ottoman threat to the central Med.

Well ive been reading "The Grand Strategy of Phillip II" and it occurs to me, that in my position, Phil might not have been at war - he was pressed into war by the Dutch rebellion, the Turkish threat. He went to war with England as the only way to hold onto the Netherlands. If he COULD have, he'd have been better off staying at peace, at least for awhile.

Im not sure theres much to be gained by going to war in Europe now. Im already too big to make stab or research easy (realistic, I think) Better perhaps to stay at peace, and not to colonize further, but to build improvements, manufactories, and to research? I know there are some negative/Spanish decline events coming up - is it a case of go for broke now while you can? Or build to offset the decline?

[Velociryx]

I'd use every available resource at my disposal till game end...colonists included! But, if you're wanting a more historical feel, and given your current position, perhaps now would be the time dig in, stop focusing on colonizing, and get ready for some dark days ahead (you'll just LOVE some of the events to come!)

-=Vel=-

[chequita guevara]

DEVELOP! Then expand.

[Micha]

Use those precious colonists, claim your rightful possessions in the new world! Other than that, staying at peace might be a good idea if you´ve got some badboy points; otherwise, try to ally with france and force vassalize their foes...

[BeBMan]

Re: expand or develop?

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Better perhaps to stay at peace, and not to colonize further, but to build improvements, manufactories, and to research? I know there are some negative/Spanish decline events coming up - is it a case of go for broke now while you can? Or build to offset the decline?

Hm, do you know details of those events (from an earlier game)? Because I played Spain recently as well two or three times, but I'm not sure if I should post something which could be considered as spoilers....

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I'd use every available resource at my disposal till game end...colonists included! But, if you're wanting a more historical feel, and given your current position, perhaps now would be the time dig in, stop focusing on colonizing, and get ready for some dark days ahead (you'll just LOVE some of the events to come!)

-=Vel=-

The problem is even with only moderate colonizing, they use up a fair amount of money. Im trying to keep inflation down, so all my money comes from annual taxes, and I direct the monthly to research (and occasionally to stab - lets not debate THAT now).

Im getting less than 350 ducats a year on the annual taxes. If I send even two or three colonists a year, and start a couple of officials a year, and send a couple of merchants a year, that leaves nothing for conversions or to save up for a manufactory.

also increasing the number of provinces will slow research and stability even further, wont it?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
DEVELOP! Then expand.

Thats what im leaning towards.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Micha
Use those precious colonists, claim your rightful possessions in the new world! Other than that, staying at peace might be a good idea if you´ve got some badboy points; otherwise, try to ally with france and force vassalize their foes...

Ally with France!!!! Ive got Bearn, and they have perm CB on me, and very poor relations.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: expand or develop?

Originally posted by BeBro


Hm, do you know details of those events (from an earlier game)? Because I played Spain recently as well two or three times, but I'm not sure if I should post something which could be considered as spoilers....

Ive skimmed the events files, but I didnt memorize them, or even understand them all. Ive heard about things like releasing new world gold provinces to avoid bankruptcy, but that seems to gamey to me - i'll take whats coming.

If you have advice and dont want to do a spoiler, you might try putting it in historical terms - theres nothing spoilerish as far as im concerned about discussing actual 16th or 17th century history.

[BeBMan]

Ok it should not reveal too much when I say that money for a manufactory may be spent wiser after several events of the late 16th/early 17th century. OTOH later things may be much more expensive when you have a higher inflation, since Spain seems not be good in reducing it (mildly expressed).

[Micha]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ally with France!!!! Ive got Bearn, and they have perm CB on me, and very poor relations.

Which is exactly why I say ally with them! As long as you fight together, they cannot declare war on you. France usually is the only serious foe of Spain in EU2, so you´d almost guarantee victory by allying with them.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Micha


Which is exactly why I say ally with them! As long as you fight together, they cannot declare war on you. France usually is the only serious foe of Spain in EU2, so you´d almost guarantee victory by allying with them.

I just cant see Spain and France reaching agreement, to the point of alliance, at least prior to the outbreak of open civil war in France. If the game lets me do that, its, well, a gamey exploit.

I mean France is SUPPOSED to be the thorn in my side. And nothing has happened in the game thus far to alter that.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I just cant see Spain and France reaching agreement, to the point of alliance, at least prior to the outbreak of open civil war in France. If the game lets me do that, its, well, a gamey exploit.

I mean France is SUPPOSED to be the thorn in my side. And nothing has happened in the game thus far to alter that.

An alternate history where France and Spain remained in acceptable terms wouldn't be completely unrealistic though. France would have been more than happy to have more resources for its own econmomic ventures, and for wars on continental Europe, without worrying about the southern neighbour.

If Spain is neither extremely rich & weak, nor allied with France's greatest rival for European domination (Austria), I don't think why an alliance wouldn't work. I mean, you both are Catholics and hate the Rosbifs. What more could you hope for?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor

An alternate history where France and Spain remained in acceptable terms wouldn't be completely unrealistic though. France would have been more than happy to have more resources for its own econmomic ventures, and for wars on continental Europe, without worrying about the southern neighbour.

If Spain is neither extremely rich & weak, nor allied with France's greatest rival for European domination (Austria), I don't think why an alliance wouldn't work. I mean, you both are Catholics and hate the Rosbifs. What more could you hope for?

Actually Spain/Castille had been allied to England for 150 years, to balance France. Spain didnt start to oppose England till the 1560's. Spain and France were natural rivals for influence in Italy and the Med, in the Navarre and Rousillo/Rosselo. In addition, by inheriting Burgundy, Phillip was heir to the Burgundian rivalry with the French throne, and to rivalry over Walloonia. Further, as a Hapsburg, Phillip naturally sides with his Austrian cousins against French expansion in Germany.

Simply by holding on to all the lands the Hapsburgs inherit in Italy, Spain, Netherlands, and the HRE, the Hapsburgs tend to encircle France, to which France responds by opposing Spain. Even Henry III, who was Catholic, opposed Spain, despite Phillips marriage to Elizabeth of Valois. When Phillip planned to attack England, there was much talk of how much easier it would be to do this allied with France, and how they could then partition England. Phillip rejected this approach, saying France was an unreliable partition partner, and citing the earlier experience in the kingdom of Naples, where an attempted partition led to squabbling, which the Spanish blamed on France.

The only friends the Spanish had in France were the hard line Catholics under the Duke of Guise, but they lost out.

Its still not clear to me how the French Wars of Religion play out in game terms.

France has been messing around in the new world (in game), and thats a further issue.

I'd need an earlier POD (point of departure) to make this work, RP-wise. One where Spain had either avoided the Hapsburg inheritance (but i went with the historical choice on that event) or where Spain was more distant from Austria from early on (which A. I havent done thus far and B. strikes me as REALLY out of character for Phillip II, who was very loyal to his fathers political legacy)

[chequita guevara]

So don't RP.