Morrowind - Second Expansion - Bloodmoon

[pg]

Originally posted by JimMac
I dont know (or want to use) any tactics which will boost my skills 'unfairly'.

once you get more experience with the game i think you'll realize it's really unbalanced and some exploits are pretty obvious.

So far, I have really enjoyed playing the game. I must be wrong I guess?

not at all. morrowind was a great game for 2 weeks or so for me. i'm just lamenting over the fact if they had done some things differently it could be a game i'd play practically forever like doom2, or eu2.

[General Ludd]

Uhm... if you don't like using exploits and "abusing the AI" why in the hell do you do it?

[Eli]

It's a great game...(the original that is). I guess you all know why , but the world is so rich that I got totally immersed in it for a few weeks. One of the best games I ever played, my first RPG(and it was the best possible first).

I should start it again some day. Though I'll have to figure the thievery/magic system first.

Great game.

[pg]

Originally posted by Osweld
Uhm... if you don't like using exploits and "abusing the AI" why in the hell do you do it?

i guess i must plead guilty to abusing the ai by using the exploit of moving. if you've played morrowind i'm sure you've had many instances of the ai monsters getting stuck on the walls/doors/tables/etc or firing into those with their spells/arrows. what am i supposed to do when this happens? move into their line of fire purposely or walk up to them and let them beat on me without trying to dodge(even in daggerfall people were circle strafing to dodge)? if i the ai is so bad that it gets stuck or fires into an obstacle just because i'm strafing around dodging, then that's the game's fault not mine! the game shouldn't have included the option for the player to move like that if it couldn't handle it.

the whole point of combat in most games is to use tactics, and strategy, yes? i think it's a valid tactic to try and dodge enemies sword swings or their fired projectiles. i shouldn't have to handicap myself to make the game challenging. again, the game is at fault not i. saying i shouldn't dodge, just because it works well is like saying "don't use good items because they are good, and thus you'll win too easily". it's hard to revert back to substandard way of playing a game once you've already mastered certain parts of it. if morrowind had been designed right from the start this wouldn't have been a problem. deus ex, the doom's, the quake's, daggerfall!, or serious sam don't have anywhere near the same level of problems morrowind has in this area, so their substandard ai is the problem.

[General Ludd]

Either take advantage of the AIs weakness and don't complain about them, or play fair. I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.


If the AI is stuck, I do move up to it and engage it in melee. As for it hiting walls and missing alot... well, I do to. The AI might not be very good, but you might aswell make the best of it instead of exploiting it and complaining about it.

And actually, if you find the game too easy I would suggest not using "good items". I do that not only to add a challange but also for roleplaying.

You should play with the game, not against it. It may not be perfect, it may have flaws, but if you focus on those flaws and play the game the way you want it to be rather then the way it is, you are not going to have fun.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Osweld
Either take advantage of the AIs weakness and don't complain about them, or play fair. I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.

You should play with the game, not against it. It may not be perfect, it may have flaws, but if you focus on those flaws and play the game the way you want it to be rather then the way it is, you are not going to have fun.

Osweld.
After all, its called roleplaying for a reason...

[Tuberski]

Part of the problem with Morrowind is the Monty Haul feel to it.

For those who have played PNP roleplaying games you know what I'm talking about.

For the rest, it just seems like you get to powerful to quickly. It should be a LOT harder to find things of better quality than steel, and everything should be a LOT more expensive.

When I know where all the good Artifacts are, every time I play, it gets a little predictable. There should have been at least some way to randomize the location of artifacts. Either in different dungeons or the dungeons themselves being in different locations.

ACK!

[pg]

I agree the AI isn't very good but manipulating it's weaknesses and then complaing that it allows you to do that is absurd.

i don't understand why complaining is absurd. the other games i mentioned have ai good enough so these problems are minimal. i understand it's a rpg, but i need a decent ai for it to be playable to me.

Originally posted by Tuberski
Part of the problem with Morrowind is the Monty Haul feel to it.

For those who have played PNP roleplaying games you know what I'm talking about.

For the rest, it just seems like you get to powerful to quickly. It should be a LOT harder to find things of better quality than steel, and everything should be a LOT more expensive.

i knew i wasn't the only one who had complaints. i managed to stumble over items left and right without even trying in morrowind's wilderness. compared to other games which balance out how items are gained as you level up; in morrowind you can literally walk from the first town and find something near daedra quality within an hour.

heh, money hardly serves a purpose in the game after you level up a few times. once you get a few thousand gold there is literally no point to money. anything you could buy which costs a lot is almost 10 times easier to find or steal once you have some decent in game experience(like knowing where to find the guys that drop daedra!). it's hard to roleplay in an environment where there are so many easy opportunities. this is made worse by the fact that being an opportunist is surprisingly easy and often has no consequences if you have any idea of how the game works.

or you can just sell things to shop keepers for more money than you bought the original item for(did they patch this yet?). even the best roleplayers will have a hard time resisting the free alchemy set in the caldera mage's guild or the soulgem on the desk for one of the first mage's guild quest in balmora.

When I know where all the good Artifacts are, every time I play, it gets a little predictable. There should have been at least some way to randomize the location of artifacts. Either in different dungeons or the dungeons themselves being in different locations.

agreed. even daggerfall had lots of random questing why couldn't morrowind?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by pg


i don't understand why complaining is absurd. the other games i mentioned have ai good enough so these problems are minimal. i understand it's a rpg, but i need a decent ai for it to be playable to me.

You don't see how complaining about something that you're doing yourself is absurd? There's nothing wrong with complaining about the AI, but don't exploit it if it bothers you - you're just making your own problems.

i knew i wasn't the only one who had complaints. i managed to stumble over items left and right without even trying in morrowind's wilderness. compared to other games which balance out how items are gained as you level up; in morrowind you can literally walk from the first town and find something near daedra quality within an hour.

heh, money hardly serves a purpose in the game after you level up a few times. once you get a few thousand gold there is literally no point to money. anything you could buy which costs a lot is almost 10 times easier to find or steal once you have some decent in game experience(like knowing where to find the guys that drop daedra!). it's hard to roleplay in an environment where there are so many easy opportunities. this is made worse by the fact that being an opportunist is surprisingly easy and often has no consequences if you have any idea of how the game works.

geting items enchanted costs tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of gold pieces. Magic spells can be quite expensive aswell, and all of the small things like alchemy ingrediants, arrows, lockpicks, ect... all add up.

I don't understand your complaints about stealing... do you think you should have to pay when stealing an item? (besides, I imagine that the fine for geting caught is much more expensive)

And I'll say it again, you don't have to pick up or use everything you find in the wilderness. If you think it's too easy to do, why do you do it?

or you can just sell things to shop keepers for more money than you bought the original item for(did they patch this yet?). even the best roleplayers will have a hard time resisting the free alchemy set in the caldera mage's guild or the soulgem on the desk for one of the first mage's guild quest in balmora.

There you go again, complaining about your own exploitation.

[Dis]

where can I find these great items just outside the first city again?

I haven't found that many great items yet. Although I did manage to find a sword with fire damage fairly quickly.

[pg]

dissident -

i haven't played the game in a few months so i don't remember in much detail. i do remember there being a few islands near seyda neen with some good items, and in the original game this is where the robe of st. rois(sp?) was near too. they were underwater grottos(i remember finding a dead body with good armor in one of these) or caves on islands. i also remember there being a peice(s) of ebony(or some other dark metal) near the fields of kummu. i remember these because they were the ones i found really quick when i started playing the game. there really is so much stuff lying around in morrowind, just start wandering in the wilderness and explore every cave/dungeon you come across.

Originally posted by Osweld
You don't see how complaining about something that you're doing yourself is absurd? There's nothing wrong with complaining about the AI, but don't exploit it if it bothers you - you're just making your own problems.

are you being serious?! don't exploit the ai when it operates so horribly? it exploits itself by just me playing the game. it's obviously my fault the game doesn't have good ai, so to make up for this shortcoming i should handicap my play. perhaps i should only be allowed to go left? being able to go right is too unbalanced in conjunction with left turns. oh wait, if i turn left too much i will be going right.

this is silly. we are on different levels here. in morrowind you obviously don't try to play for power/items/etc even though the whole game revolves around combat. are you a roleplayer? you have fun collecting silverware or shirts to display in your house? i find activity like that boring and pointless compared to trying to figure out the combat system. it's just personal preference.

getting items enchanted costs tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of gold pieces. Magic spells can be quite expensive as well, and all of the small things like alchemy ingrediants, arrows, lockpicks, ect... all add up.

only someone who didn't understand morrowind at all would pay for enchantment. paying for enchantment is insane. you can train yourself for a fraction of the cost it would take to pay an enchanter to do the same work. all it takes is time and effort practicing your skills(every morrowind character can max every skill iirc). i think all you need to do to have good success is something like quaff a bunch of intelligence buffs. the time you take to train you skills would take less time than trying to gather the necessary money(especially considering how most merchants have limited money) in order to pay for enchantment.

i remember using my arrows over and over again by picking them up off dead bodies(did this change in a patch?). alchemy ingrediants where abundent if you knew where to look. of course it usually involved travel since certain ingrediants only grew in certain areas of morrowind but you didn't need to buy them. you could usually find lots by just looking in random crates in cities/dungeons also. these crates will also respawn their contents within a certain amount of time(i don't remember what it was). lockpicks weren't a big deal for me as i either used scrolls(which always worked unlike picks), or magic(i think you only needed 30 skill in alteration to magically open most locks without much trouble).

I don't understand your complaints about stealing... do you think you should have to pay when stealing an item? (besides, I imagine that the fine for getting caught is much more expensive)

i'm just saying stealing is way too easy. there are way too many opportunities to lift easy items which can potentially unbalance the game. even if i was a roleplaying i think i'd be hard pressed not to pilfer some.

And I'll say it again, you don't have to pick up or use everything you find in the wilderness. If you think it's too easy to do, why do you do it?

what is the point of the game if you don't use things you find? doesn't that mean the game is unbalanced if it becomes to easy when i use items i find? i think the more important question is why are items so abundent and why are they so easy to find/get? i do it because i can then beat the game and then stop playing(which i have long ago).

There you go again, complaining about your own exploitation.

morrowind is a very exploitation rich environment. this is the design of the game. games are supposed to be balanced so exploitation is limited. if doom 3 comes out and you start with infinite ammo and every weapon(including bfg), are you going to tell me just to use the shotgun because it's too easy otherwise? i know this is an exaggerated example compared to morrowind yet it's the same thing. morrowind could be much more balanced but something stopped them from making it so.

i don't think any of this will convince you. we have different opinions, and we just disagree.

[General Ludd]

I guess you just don't have any self control or no attention span, or something. You powergame, exploit, cheat, and then complain it's too easy. You are your own undoing.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by pg
dissident -

i haven't played the game in a few months so i don't remember in much detail. i do remember there being a few islands near seyda neen with some good items, and in the original game this is where the robe of st. rois(sp?) was near too. they were underwater grottos(i remember finding a dead body with good armor in one of these) or caves on islands. i also remember there being a peice(s) of ebony(or some other dark metal) near the fields of kummu. i remember these because they were the ones i found really quick when i started playing the game. there really is so much stuff lying around in morrowind, just start wandering in the wilderness and explore every cave/dungeon you come across.

That ebony armor is in one of the ancestral tombs, and it's not hard to get at all.

ACK!

[Dis]

I was in one of those tombs. I may already have it . I'm not that familiar with the armour names. I just put on the set with the best numbers

[pg]

Originally posted by Osweld
I guess you just don't have any self control or no attention span, or something. You powergame, exploit, cheat, and then complain it's too easy.

yes, since obviously my opinions differ from yours i'm obviously all those things you said. are you so insecure in your own opinions that you need to bash mine even though you haven't refuted them yet? i like lots of games that need self control and attention span , the best example being eu2, which is one of my favorite games. if eu2 doesn't require self control or attention span i don't what does.

You are your own undoing.

indeed.