Why I / YOU / WE will NOT be buying Sim Golf...

[yin26]

Father Beast:

Like I said, I think it will sell well for its audience (I don't think it will rival The Sims by ANY means), but the fact that nearly half of the Firaxis staff is on Sim Golf just leaves me awfully flat. If it only takes 20 people to make Civ 3 an awesome game, then great.

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 05-11-2001 12:04 AM I don't get it either. It's not "real" enough to satisfy one crowd and harldy sim enough to satisfy the other (or, I should say, stands against VERY stiff competition in this area already). Even this "let your Joe Cool character play the course" sounds horribly shallow: You get to select how "aggressively" he hits the ball. So let me get this straight: You don't actually CONTROL him hitting the ball, you just select some static text option and see what happens? So how do you improve? How do you judge the course? "Gee, next time I guess I'll click 'semi-aggressive.'" Zzzzzzzz Sid seems to be pulling another Covert Action: Trying to put two games in one...a sim course-builder and a golf game. Like I said, I think it will be a good game for its genre. The problem, I guess, is what IS it's genre? And unless it's truly redefining something here, it would seem that the elements we've seen so far have been handled with much more experience and focus elsewhere. What can I say? Firaxis is doing a Golf Sim!!! And only, mind you, because they decided NOT to do a Dino game first. My God...

I dont see what the big deal is about 2 games in one. I have never played one of the roller coaster sims, but IIUC you both get to play it as a business sim (what to build, what to charge, etc) AND you get to actually ride (first person view) your custom designed coasters - as a treat. Not surprised that they would add a first person play through feature to what must essentially be a business sim, competing with Roller Coaster Tycoon and its ilk, NOT a sports game.

Have any of you looked at the sales lately for roller coaster tycoon? and its appeal to non hard core gamers? Seems like a perfect natural for Maxis, and if Sid wants to dabble in it, so be it.

Seems Sid's most important talent for the Civ series lately has been cultivating talent. Brian Reynolds obviously. The question now is whether Jeff Bridges et al can pick up where Brian left off, with Sid mainly ensuring that they keep to his vision of Civ3, not getting involved in the details. From what we have seem so far they are developing an excellent game though im sure none of us (myself included) likes everything we see.


LOTM

[lord of the mark]

DIdn't sid once say in an interview that civ was in part inspired by Simcity? The idea of a sid/will wright collaboration seems the most natural thing in the world, though i can think of some better directions than simgolf Hopefully this will be a chance for them to learn to work together before moving on to a more interesting project (Simsociety? Sim congress? Sim state department? Sim NATO? Simeconomy?)

LOTM

[tniem]

I think this could be a very good game with a huge fun factor which after all is what games are all about.

My biggest concern is not that it will hurt Civ III, because I don't think it will, but instead one of the things yin mentioned that Sid is putting two games in one. It sounds like playing the courses is kind of like riding the coasters you build in Rollercoaster Tycoon and then some. How much effort am I going to have to put in to learning how to play golf in Sid's Sim Golf just to suceed in building a fantastic course? I just wonder about this. Two games at one company isn't the worrisome thing, its two games in one game that is disturbing me.

[The Rusty Gamer]

SimMall? See http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum22/HTML/000845.html?4

[yin26]

LOTM:

Excellent point about Sid perhaps learning a great deal and later returning to a more serious theme. Well taken. I just only wish he had gone 100% on Civ 3 FIRST.

[Apocalypse]

I'm taking about their own forums. They had that old newsgroup-type for many months and then had the UBB for a few more months until it crashed because of the large amounts of posts. After that they moved to owo.

[Khan Singh]

I'll probably be buying it. Of course I'm a single-digit handicapper who also likes computer golf ( I have Golden Bear Challenge AND Links, and used to design courses, back when I had free time). Naturally I'll want to look at it first and read a review, but how bad can it be? After all it's about golf, the most elegant, subtle and perfect game ever devised.


While I'm no sure what Simgolf will be about exactly (hard to tell from the information provided so far) , I'm assuming that it will be an 3/4 view isomorphic golfing game with a course designer, and maybe some sort of management game. I'm certainly not enthusiastic about the idea of an 3/4 isomorphic golf game, and the Sims didn't interest me in the slightest, but there is probably some way to make such a combination interesting.

Maybe you could concentrate on strategic play choices (playing a draw or fade, using driver or iron off the tee, laying up or being a hero, etc) and add on a layer for betting, gamesmanship and player development. Or you could put the game in the Tour context where your strategic choices earn you money.

I don't know if such a game could become a classic, but it might be fun for a while. And it might have wider appeal to the "Wal-mart customer" than Civ.

[Ari Rahikkala]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 05-10-2001 08:58 PM Are you just THAT bored with Civ? font>

* Puts on an asbestos suit *

Actually, I think that Sid could be. After all, he is quite a genius amd a genius doesn't like working on the same project all time. Who knows if he has been like this before: Lots of small game ideas that don't actually get done, and then a big project that is actually simple, and also gets done. I'm claiming that Sid doesn't have the patience to work on a really big project for a long time.

* Dodges a few stones while speaking*

On the other hand, well, that's just my opinion.

[VetLegion]

[\quote]this is actually something new: simcity meets the sims![/quote]

actually Tropico is just that: SimCity meets the Sims, and on a whole island, not just golf course. If I was Sid I would try to license the engine. PopTop (developer of Tropico and Railroad Tycoon II) also has the best user interfaces in the world.

[quote]* Puts on an asbestos suit *[\quote]

that wont save you Just kidding, I dont want to flame anyone. But Sid deserves credit for at least three things. First, games he did. Secondly, games he didnt do; Dinosaurs, it takes honesty not to publish a ****ty game. Thirdly, collaboration (going out for advice).

I dont see the problem here. I would have no problem if Firaxis (or anyone else) did a few bad games. Sid Meiers Minesweeper, so what? Civ3 being understaffed? I doubt it. I think civ3 is going to be an ok game. They are doing it for a long time, and only changing a couple of things from earlier games. They have enough time to get changes ok. I am not worried at all.


*goes off to check screenshots some more*

[Khan Singh]

Tropico is very good and its interface has a lot of nice features, but I don't think the RR2 engine is really any better than the SMAC engine. There are stability questions, for one thing.

Also, the "walking" model (where the gameplay consists of building a city whose inhabitants don't have to walk very far, ie Caesar or Tropico) isn't, as a concept, getting any fresher or more original. It works very well in Tropico, mind you, and the game is fun and well designed, with a number of original features and a well streamlined economy. But I'm getting as tired of these games as I am of Civ's "empire" model.

Novelty is half of entertainment.