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Why I / YOU / WE will NOT be buying Sim Golf...

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  • Why I / YOU / WE will NOT be buying Sim Golf...

    First, let me give you my assumptions:

    1. Sid IS a genius and has earned the right to make any damn game he pleases. If the next project is "Cement Setter Sally," God bless him. He has given me more for my money than any designer of anything ever.

    2. Sim Golf will be a great game...for its genre.

    Those are my assumptions, so please understand where I'm coming from as I explain why I simply will NOT buy Sim Golf:

    quote:

    ...plop down a tee, lay down a little bit of fairway, position the green, scatter around a few bunkers, and turn my little golfers loose. There's something mesmerizing about just watching my golfers whack that little white ball and seeing it sail through the air.


    A few years ago, this might have had some vague appeal. But this kind of stuff has been done TO DEATH...by people who actually spent their careers doing it and NOT by people who got inspired reading a golf magazine last October. And let's face it, plopping down a tree is just not that compelling no matter how well you do it. If I want mesmerizing action placing cute artifacts and watching minute things go around in circles, I'll get a fish tank.

    In fact, a fish tank simulator is something I likely WOULD buy. Sid, please consider making "Sid Meier's Sim Fish Tank." Or just drop the 'Fish' part and go with "Sid Meier's Sim Tank." Now we're talking!

    quote:

    We are particularly fascinated by the way 'The Sims' has fostered a very active online community of people who enjoy sharing Sims skins, story books, props, wallpaper, etc. To me this represents in a way the future of online gaming. While some games are suited for competitive RTS style multi-play, I think a lot more people respond to the idea of joining a community of like-interested gamers to share ideas, experiences, and game pieces that they have created or collected. This is something that we are planning to expand upon in SimGolf.


    This, of course, begs the question: So why has Firaxis absolutely ingnored this important aspect of gaming ...the community... before? Firaxis was unable even to properly moderate its own forums (which were open of all about a month?). And to this point, the manner in which Civ3 has been presented as a second class citizen and Firaxis as a reclusive, self-absorbed company doesn't bode well either. If you plan on using the same people to do the moderating, interacting, and hyping, better plan on sending them to a few seminars on how to deal with the public.

    Better yet, just pay Maxis to handle it.

    quote:

    Well I'm a busy guy these days! It's really great to be working on a brand-new game like SimGolf, and a classic like Civilization at the same time.


    The million dollar "this begs the question...": Any chance BOTH games will suffer? It reminds me a bit of Sid's 'Covert Action Rule,' which says it's better to have one good game than two great games. Of course, he meant it's a mistake to have essentially two great games WITHIN the same game, causing the game as a whole to lose focus.

    But what about two completely different games at the same time, Sid? Almost every demise scenario I've read about a bankrupt gaming company started with:

    A: Flush with excited from our success, we decided to hire 5 times the staff and consult Steven Spielberg on the Hollywood budget cinematics

    OR

    B: We felt comfortable doing more than one project at once.

    Firaxis has already done a bit of 'A' in terms of the number of staff they've added since Gettysburg (awesome game, by the way). And as for 'B', that approach NECESSARILY dilutes your focus as a company and creates room for all kinds of potentially ruinous things like in-house grudges over who gets to work on what project or, even worse, who gets pulled mid-stream from one game to work on stuff for the other. A kind of infinite digression of wasted time and energy.

    A should I toss in a Dino reference here for good measure? Why in all that's Good and Holy would you be chasing Dinos and Golf Balls when Civ3 is back where it belongs...in YOUR hands at YOUR company. My God, Sid. CIV3!!! You can ALWAYS go back to plopping down trees and lush gardens. Any compelling reason to jepordize your Flagship Game?

    I just don't get it. Are you just THAT bored with Civ? I guess so if exchanging Sim Golf wallpaper seems thrilling by comparison.

    quote:

    Will you pamper your players with lovely gardens, comfy benches, and a luxury hotel or will you torment them with monstrous sand traps, tacky vacation homes, and spine-chilling golf shots - the possibilities are endless.


    Yes, and "endless" ain't always a good thing. Consider, for example, Hell.
    [This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 10, 2001).]
    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

  • #2
    Its sad that all the work we put into these forums are not going to mean much...
    Now I've even reversed my decision to buy the game when it come out, first I'll wait for the goood reviews then I might even wait for another few months if it ain't too bad and I don't get any other game before I buy it.

    And I definitely will not but a crappy golf sim game.

    [This message has been edited by Lord_Davinator (edited May 10, 2001).]
    Without music life would be a mistake - Nietzsche
    So you think you can tell heaven from hell?
    rocking on everest

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    • #3
      I have trouble imagining what market this game is going for.
      The real golfers are rabid simulation (that's real physics simulation, not will wright "sim"lation) nuts. and the big companies have knocked themselves out to bring Golfers their courses. the guys who have no other games will have Golf at work. There's 3 different companies competing for the best Golf, and they all stay afloat. How will a "golf course manager" fit into that mindset?

      then there's people like me. I don't like sports, and even if I did, I wouldn't like golf. I do have Links 386, but I got that out of the trash, and hardly ever play it. its realism seems too pretentious to me. I just don't get it.

      so I don't get it, and I ignore it.
      Any man can be a Father, but it takes someone special to be a BEAST

      I was just about to point out that Horsie is simply making excuses in advance for why he will suck at Civ III...
      ...but Father Beast beat me to it! - Randomturn

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      • #4
        I don't get it either. It's not "real" enough to satisfy one crowd and harldy sim enough to satisfy the other (or, I should say, stands against VERY stiff competition in this area already).

        Even this "let your Joe Cool character play the course" sounds horribly shallow: You get to select how "aggressively" he hits the ball. So let me get this straight: You don't actually CONTROL him hitting the ball, you just select some static text option and see what happens?

        So how do you improve? How do you judge the course? "Gee, next time I guess I'll click 'semi-aggressive.'" Zzzzzzzz Sid seems to be pulling another Covert Action: Trying to put two games in one...a sim course-builder and a golf game.

        Like I said, I think it will be a good game for its genre. The problem, I guess, is what IS it's genre? And unless it's truly redefining something here, it would seem that the elements we've seen so far have been handled with much more experience and focus elsewhere.

        What can I say? Firaxis is doing a Golf Sim!!! And only, mind you, because they decided NOT to do a Dino game first. My God...
        I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

        "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

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        • #5
          I won't be buying cuz undoubtedly it won't be available to the mac os.

          It does sound kinda neat though.As an avid golfer,this sim seems a little more appealing than some.
          I imagine you try to build a course that is attractive to sim golfers working your way up in prestige and perhaps some day attracting a PGA tournament or perhaps even a Major Championship.It would be fun to make a "nightmare tough" course and watch the sims whine about it.Maybe fill it with alligator infested water hazards and stock your proshop with balls
          The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu

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          • #6
            quote:

            Originally posted by yin26 on 05-10-2001 08:58 PM
            Better yet, just pay Maxis to handle it.

            actually, that's exactly what they are doing
            quote:

            After it ships, Maxis will provide continued online support for the game by releasing new skins and items through its official Web site as it's done for all of its previous games
            http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories...7147-2,00.html

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            • #7
              quote:

              Originally posted by Father Beast on 05-10-2001 11:14 PM
              There's 3 different companies competing for the best Golf, and they all stay afloat. How will a "golf course manager" fit into that mindset?
              eeer you are talking about golf-playing simulation. this is going to be a mananagment game....

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              • #8
                quote:

                Originally posted by yin26 on 05-11-2001 12:04 AM
                Like I said, I think it will be a good game for its genre. The problem, I guess, is what IS it's genre? And unless it's truly redefining something here, it would seem that the elements we've seen so far have been handled with much more experience and focus elsewhere.

                this is actually something new: simcity meets the sims!
                quote:

                Certain pairs of golfers will become involved in stories relating to business, relationships, rivalries, and romance as they play your course. By selecting the players who will play together and by providing them with a fun experience you can guide these stories to happy (or unhappy?) endings. "Bob would have gotten that promotion if his boss hadn't hit his drive into the lake." "Billy felt so good after that cool foamy Coke that he proposed to Cindy!" Players can even create their own stories and share them through the SimGolf web site

                other games like Caesar 3 also had your people telling you what the needed, if they were happy, etc, but in SimGolf we are talking about the-sims-like characters

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                • #9
                  There's already another similar game called Golf Resort Tycoon coming out in about a week. Check out http://www.golfresorttycoon.com/. At a glance the graphics look nicer. In other words, Sid may have been beaten to the punch on this one!
                  Avoid COLONY RUSH on Galactic Civlizations II (both DL & DA) with my Slow Start Mod.
                  Finding Civ 4: Colonization too easy? Try my Ten Colonies challenge.

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                  • #10
                    A golf course manager? What do you do? Go around and take all the lost balls?
                    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                    • #11
                      Number of developers on Civilization III : 20
                      Number of Firaxis employees : 36
                      Number on Sim Golf: = 16?

                      Nearly HALF of the staff on Sim Golf? Tell me those 16 staff kept focussed on Civ 3 WOULDN'T make Civ 3 a far better game.

                      tniem: One can only hope Sid has already learned his lesson, but things sure look a bit confusing so far...
                      I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                      "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        First off, the Firaxis forums were open much longer than a month, it was over a year and during that year the posters were very productive, we even compiled a book of the major events that happened, The Book of NIM.

                        Also, the two team system has worked before at other companies. The worst case scenario is if it turns out to be like Square. Both Gettysburg! and Alpha Centauri were very good and they had two different teams working on them at a time.

                        Furthermore, I highly doubt Sid is really into Civ3. If you remember past interviews, he doesn't like making sequels.
                        "Yay Apoc!!!!!!!" - bipolarbear
                        "At least there were some thoughts went into Apocalypse." - Urban Ranger
                        "Apocalype was a great game." - DrSpike
                        "In Apoc, I had one soldier who lasted through the entire game... was pretty cool. I like apoc for that reason, the soldiers are a bit more 'personal'." - General Ludd

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                        • #13
                          I'm not talking about those forums...You are talking about owo, right?
                          [This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 11, 2001).]
                          I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                          "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You know I'll buy it. I like the Sim games (except for the Sims), and Sid is the man . I like management games, so I'll spend some cash on it.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                            • #15
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by Father Beast on 05-10-2001 11:14 PM
                              I have trouble imagining what market this game is going for.
                              The real golfers are rabid simulation (that's real physics simulation, not will wright "sim"lation) nuts. and the big companies have knocked themselves out to bring Golfers their courses. the guys who have no other games will have Golf at work. There's 3 different companies competing for the best Golf, and they all stay afloat. How will a "golf course manager" fit into that mindset?

                              then there's people like me. I don't like sports, and even if I did, I wouldn't like golf. I do have Links 386, but I got that out of the trash, and hardly ever play it. its realism seems too pretentious to me. I just don't get it.

                              so I don't get it, and I ignore it.


                              I am afraid that after thinking about it, I have to argue with myself.

                              I recall that Will shopped simcity to several publishers, who couldn't take it seriously because it was so different. "who would Play it?" they asked.
                              And now I realize I made the same kind of ignorant assumption. I'm neither a golf nut or sim nut. I probably won't buy it. But a lot of people may well think it's awesome.

                              Who Knows? Stranger things have happened...
                              Any man can be a Father, but it takes someone special to be a BEAST

                              I was just about to point out that Horsie is simply making excuses in advance for why he will suck at Civ III...
                              ...but Father Beast beat me to it! - Randomturn

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