Cheating Computer Players Really Piss Me Off

[Urban Ranger]

I really hate it

I know that since most programmers can't write AI routines that worth a hoot or two, and that game companies are under some kind of pressure to rush games out the doors these days, they give computer players all kinds of advantages.

This can get really out of hand when the computer players not only can do things faster but doesn't have to follow the rules of the game like you must. I was playing a game of MoO 2, and got really upset when the computer players can colonize planets they can't possibly reach - I know, I have spies to keep a tab on them. Not only that, but they can have a very large fleet (several battleships when they have only 6 or 7 star systems) while turning out colony ships like crazy and still have lots of leftover for research. I understand MicroProse is very notorious for cheating computer players, even Sid did it in his games. But this is just too !@$(! much.

They really must cheat less and do a better job in writing AI. No, I don't use cheat codes.

Share your gripes with us.

[Jaakko]

Lately I've been more concerned with cheating human players (scum!) online, but I still agree wholeheartedly.

In Shogun it really pisses me off when the computer can send additional troops at me when I invade, all because of a rules loophole in the strategy layer.

Cheating computers are sometimes still a must, but utmost care should be taken to make its behaviour look believeable.





[This message has been edited by Jaakko (edited December 17, 2000).]

[Zkribbler]

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger on 12-17-2000 12:39 AM I really hate it This can get really out of hand when the computer players not only can do things faster but doesn't have to follow the rules of the game like you must.

I couldn't agree with you more. "Machiavelli, the Prince" is one of my favorite games. However, I only get to start one slanderous rumor per turn while my three computer opponents can slander me a total of six times per turn--a sure sign that I'm not going to get a great score

[Narck]

Well, but we can cheat as well!

[Urban Ranger]

Maybe you do, Narck, but not me. I don't use cheat codes, etc. I also try to avoid reload save games, etc., unless the situation gets really out of hand.

[Phantom]

I cheat very rarely but my brother is cheating the whole time

[Garth Vader]

Despite this cheating, how often do you lose a game of MOO2?

It would be ideal if there was better AI, but the time and cost involved in making a computer player as good as a human is beyond the reach of a game company.

The omnescient AI bothers me in MOO2. It really makes stealth ships pointless.

[Urban Ranger]

Garth,

It depends on what level. On "Impossible," quite often On "Hard," now and then, On "Average," never.

I don't think it's too much to ask for if the AIs are just a little smarter. For example, in one game the Merlars were fighting me. I had 4 battleships defending a colony, and the dumb sod sent in 3 groups of battleships, 3, 3, and 2, arriving on 3 different turns. If it knew how to coordinate, I would have lost. Instead, I held the colony, destroyed 4 of its battleships, and lost none of mine.

[Garth Vader]

Yeah, that's why they need cheating. It would be nice if the AI only had 6 battleships, but sent them all at once. Instead they can build and support many more ships than you ever could but they use them poorly.

I am looking foreward to real time combat in Moo3 because I don't think the current system is fair, at least in the late game. Once you get plasma cannons I usually destroy every computer fleet in one turn and they never get to fire on me.

That is another reason cheating needs to be fixed, I don't want to see real fleet combat when the AI can build and support 70 doom stars!

So I suppose I am arguing against myself here

[Urban Ranger]

That's rotten ain't it? How hard it would be for the computer players to coordinate these attacks? If they don't know how to send them in from diffent points so they arrive at the same time, send all the ships to one planet before attacking. That seems to be what MoO used to do. Sometimes when I capture a system from a computer player I would notice zillions of fleets all heading towards that system, but in small groups.

I wouldn't be so pissed if the computer players play smarter on the upper levels instead of just merely cheat worse

I don't know about MoO 3, the background story sounds hokey to me
[This message has been edited by Urban Ranger (edited December 21, 2000).]

[Julius Brenzaida]

Well,

Look what has happened with chess ?
Do you really want to be beaten "à la régulière" by the computer ?
Is it not better to be able to complain "Mummy, the AI has cheated. That's why I've lost".

------------------
Oh Man, when will you understand that your greatness lies in your failure - Goethe

[Urban Ranger]

Yeah, I am sure Kasparov is really good in MoO

[AustralianJeremy]

Actually, no, that's what I like about Chess. It's you against your opponent, no luck (no dice) and no cheating. If you win - you've earnt it. If you lose - you can learn from what your opponent did right.

That's one of the reasons why I love chess so much.

[Urban Ranger]

Same with weichi (i.e. Go) and duplicate bridge.

[tonic]

I have been retrograde - immersed in Colonization in the past few weeks. There's cheating there too with dragoons emerging miraculously when you attack another European civ's colony. Their ships become incredibly strong when you've won a few sea battles, the lowly caravel defeating your powerful frigate!

Reading through the old tips, it's amazing too how common the game reload cheat was accepted by human players at the time - 1995.