What do the US and Somalia have in common?

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by DanS
That's odd. None of those you listed were children. What was your point agains?

Actually I think you'll find that they all were children when they committed the crimes that got them onto death row in the first place - perhaps that is why nobody cares, because they are adults when they die...

Pay attention Dan!

Not old enough to legally buy a beer in a bar - but old enough to fry in the electric chair!

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
mobius, most of them were children for 1 or 2 years after imprisonment. they were executed as adults.

It's like talking to a F***ING brick wall on this forum sometimes!!!

THEY WERE CHILDREN WHEN THEY COMMITTED THE CRIME - THAT IS WHY THEY SHOULDN'T BE EXECUTED!!!

I'll assume you're being deliberately obtuse - because my only other conclusion would be that you're being spectacularly moronic...

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Name/Date of Execution/Place of Execution/Race/Age at Crime/Age at Execution

You forgot the "why" part. These were murderers, to begin with. Why don't you spend some time around some, and see how much like "children" they are.

What is even more shocking is that many of these children spent over half their lives on death row!

Yeah, we need to speed up the appeals process and execute them faster. That was your point, wasn't it?

Or an average of just under three children killed per year in the last five years!!!

And we won't have to worry about another one, ever, if the criminals in question decide to draw the line just a wee bit short of murder. San Diego had a cutie a few years ago - a retail store robbery set up by a fifteen year old's 17 year old girlfriend, in which they planned that they'd have to kill the 26 year old manager because she'd know the 17 year old g/f was in on the robbery, since the brilliant plan was to show up after hours, have the g/f unlock the door, then tie up the manager after having her open up the safe.

After she was tied up, and the money had been grabbed, the 15 year old made a point of telling the store manager that he was going to kill her, and laughed while she begged for her life. He prolonged the whole thing for kicks, holding a knife out in front of her, then after about 45 minutes, stabbed her once in the chest, then sat and watched and cracked jokes while she bled out and her lungs deflated. During this time, he was mocking her facial expressions, etc. They were caught because the next day, at a party, he bragged about it, and made jokes about the way she begged and about the sound her lungs made while deflating.

Unfortunately, due to the precious little thing's age, we can't dispose of that waste of Oxygen, and even worse, after we subsidize his ass in our prison system, the sick little **** will eventually have to be released. The girlfriend was tried as an adult, but she wasn't the killer, just a conspirator and accomplice, so she only gets 25 to life. Don't expect much sympathy for *******s like this. IF they are guilty, and proper legal process is followed, **** 'em.

They are knowing accomplices to these abusive labour practices and are there precisely to take advantage of them and indirectly promote them.

A lot of the third world doesn't have the luxury of nice, developed nation labor practices. It sucks, but hey, you're welcome to come help with the revolution.

Just so you know, the Levi's I'm wearing are made in New Zealand and my V-Neck Sweater is made in Croatia...

By Kiwi and Croat kids working in sweatshops, no doubt.

[Q Classic]

Not old enough to legally buy a beer in a bar - but old enough to fry in the electric chair!

i kinda agree with that sentiment. it's a damn shame that you're not old enough to legally buy a beer here, but you're perfectly allowed to die for your country.

mobius, i'm not for the death penalty. being catholic, i agree with the condemnation of capital punishment; however, i have also never experienced anything that would personalize this currently rather academic notion for me.

i am being obtuse here. why? because i don't think this is one of the worse sins in the world. i find it extremely hard to believe that an arbitrary age, say, 18, constitutes "adulthood"--in the past, that age was set all over the damn map, from 12-13 all the way up to 30. the age of consent in georgia is 16 years old--and one could argue that a boy becomes a man and a girl becomes a woman (child becomes adult) after the first time they have sex--meaning, you could argue that adulthood begins at the age of 16 or so. maturity cannot be defined by age.

i can't speak for most of those states, but for georgia, there are certain crimes that if you commit (the "seven deadly sins", so nicknamed) you are automatically charged and tried as an adult if you are over the age of 14. why? because it is assumed that you are by that point old enough and sentient enough to be able to reason--and reason ought to inform you that with the laws against murder, rape, armed robbery, and a few other things are harsh enough that it's not in your best interest to do them.

thus, i'm sure most of these "children" were tried and convicted as adults. trying and convicting a minor as an adult is not so easy to do; in most cases, with a few exceptions like the one listed immediately above, one has to petition in order to have the case upgraded to an adult trial--in a minor's criminal trial, a good deal of punishment that an adult could obtain is strictly off-limits including the death penalty.

quite simply put, the fact that the us executes a few so-called "children", tried and convicted as adults, and who are most likely quite capable of rational and mature thought, does not bother me as much as a nation that is a signatory feeding its dying and overbloated military machine at the expense of its children.

if you're dead set against the death penalty, on the other hand, i agree-- i don't believe in it.

[orange]

At least Somalia has an excuse, being a lawless anarchy and a hotbed for international terrorism...

Actually, life has improved there quite a bit because of anarchy.

This made me

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
You forgot the "why" part. These were murderers, to begin with. Why don't you spend some time around some, and see how much like "children" they are.

Actually a recent death penalty study concluded that almost 7 out 10 capital sentences were liable to serious reversible errors.

Of course children are far less able to defend themselves...

Yeah, we need to speed up the appeals process and execute them faster. That was your point, wasn't it?

Actually, it stands to reason that if you are going to have a barbaric practice as executions, that you could make it a little less barbaric by getting it over quickly...

And we won't have to worry about another one, ever, if the criminals in question decide to draw the line just a wee bit short of murder. San Diego had a cutie a few years ago - a retail store robbery set up by a fifteen year old's 17 year old girlfriend, in which they planned that they'd have to kill the 26 year old manager because she'd know the 17 year old g/f was in on the robbery, since the brilliant plan was to show up after hours, have the g/f unlock the door, then tie up the manager after having her open up the safe.

After she was tied up, and the money had been grabbed, the 15 year old made a point of telling the store manager that he was going to kill her, and laughed while she begged for her life. He prolonged the whole thing for kicks, holding a knife out in front of her, then after about 45 minutes, stabbed her once in the chest, then sat and watched and cracked jokes while she bled out and her lungs deflated. During this time, he was mocking her facial expressions, etc. They were caught because the next day, at a party, he bragged about it, and made jokes about the way she begged and about the sound her lungs made while deflating.

So some are guilty beyond doubt but then if the US actually took care of its children in the 1st place with proper education etc - maybe these kids wouldn't have turned out the way they did?

Unfortunately, due to the precious little thing's age, we can't dispose of that waste of Oxygen, and even worse, after we subsidize his ass in our prison system, the sick little **** will eventually have to be released. The girlfriend was tried as an adult, but she wasn't the killer, just a conspirator and accomplice, so she only gets 25 to life. Don't expect much sympathy for *******s like this. IF they are guilty, and proper legal process is followed, **** 'em.

The point is being allowed to rot in jail for on average over a decade each so you're still subsidising his ass by subsidising the fat pay cheques of US lawyers - hell if there weren't such a thing as death row, half of America's lawyers would be out of a job! And it appears that in the majority of cases, proper legal process is NOT followed...

A lot of the third world doesn't have the luxury of nice, developed nation labor practices. It sucks, but hey, you're welcome to come help with the revolution.

Yeah it sucks, but it is nations like the US etc that helps maintain that status quo.

By Kiwi and Croat kids working in sweatshops, no doubt.

Yes, being a shareholder of 'Bastard Overseas Sweatshops R US' I am not satisfied unless they each pull a 25hr working day, 8 days a week and pay me for the privilege!