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  • Italy, Palestinians and US lay claim to terrorist leader

    A CAPTURED Palestinian militant leader became the focus of an international tug-of-war yesterday as Italy demanded his extradition, Palestinians insisted that he be freed and the family of an American victim called for his trial in the United States.

    Even as US forces hailed the capture of Abu Abbas, the veteran leader of the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), as a blow against international terrorism, his status threatened to trigger a long and complex legal battle.

    His fate lies in the bloody events he masterminded 18 years ago, when gunmen belonging to his radical Palestinian group seized the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro in the eastern Mediterranean. They shot Leon Klinghoffer, a disabled American passenger, and threw his body and his wheelchair into the sea. Yesterday Lisa and Ilsa Klinghoffer, the victim’s daughters, said that their father’s murderer should face justice on American soil.

    “We want him tried here in our country. We want to know that he will serve his full sentence — which is hopefully a life sentence,” Lisa Klinghoffer, who spoke for her sister, said. “I hope this sends the message that no matter how many years go by, terrorists can’t run and terrorists can’t hide because they are going to be caught,” she told NBC.

    A spokesman for US Central Command in Qatar appeared to agree. He said that the seizure of Abu Abbas was living proof that Iraq supported terrorism. “He was a terrorist and remains a terrorist,” Brigadier-General Vincent Brooks said.

    However, Italy said yesterday that it had prior jurisdiction over Abu Abbas, who was sentenced in absentia by an Italian court to serve life imprisonment for masterminding the hijacking of the Achille Lauro as she sailed between Alexandria and Port Said in Egypt.

    The trauma of the hijacking still reverberates in Italy. Roberto Castelli, the Justice Minister, said that Italy would apply for his extradition “once certain legal matters have been clarified”. He added: “We want to get Abu Abbas on to our territory.”

    The Palestinian Authority, however, demanded that Abu Abbas be released, arguing that his detention violated an Israeli-Palestinian accord of 1995, under which members of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) cannot be tried for offences committed before the Oslo peace accords of September 1993.

    Four years ago the Israeli Supreme Court ruled reluctantly that Abu Abbas could not be tried in Israel if captured, even though “the late Leon Klinghoffer was murdered by despicable people and his blood cries out”.

    Saeb Erekat, a member of the Palestinian leadership, said: “He visited the West Bank and Gaza several times with Israel’s co-operation, and for this reason we call on the US Administration to respect this agreement and liberate Abu Abbas straight away.”

    Palestinian officials insisted that the United States was bound by the same 1995 accord, which had been signed by President Clinton, and that Abu Abbas had repeatedly described the killing of Klinghoffer as a “tragic error”.

    Reem al-Nimr, Abu Abbas’s wife, said her husband had taken no part in the present Iraq war. “I hope the American authorities free him,” she told al-Jazeera television in Beirut. “Abu Abbas is not a member of (Iraq’s) Baath party or the Iraqi leadership and is not party to this war at all.”

    Abu Abbas may have earned notoriety for his bloody exploits in the 1980s, but he was well past his prime when US special forces caught up with him in a Baghdad suburb on Monday night.

    For the best part of a decade, the veteran leader of the PLF has been a fighter without a cause, who even branched out into the clothing business to make ends meet.

    Born in Palestine in 1948, he grew up as a refugee in Syria and, like most of his generation, joined the PLO to fight Israel. Bold and charismatic, he formed his own faction and gained a reputation for daring and spectacular operations. He was injured fighting the Israelis during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon.

    Among his own people, however, Abu Abbas was nicknamed “Mr Disaster” for the chaotic consequences of his plans. His men pioneered the use of hot-air balloons, hang- gliders and speedboats to attack Israeli civilian targets, but in nearly every case his gunmen were killed or captured long before they could cause any harm.

    Abu Abbas signed up to the Oslo peace accords, recognised Israel and was even granted an amnesty and allowed to return to Gaza and visit Israel. However, with the collapse of the peace process, he returned to Baghdad and took up his old cause.

    Although he condemned the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington as “terrorism”, he was accused of training a new generation of fighters and of organising the payments from Saddam Hussein to relatives of Palestinian suicide bombers.

    Today the guerrilla leader cuts a pathetic rather than an intimidating figure. His hair is greying, he has put on weight, wears glasses and suffers from a heart ailment.

    Asked what he would do if America attacked, he replied recently that he would fight. In the event, he tried twice to flee to Syria, but was refused entry.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5944-649548,00.html

    1) Do the Oslo Accords really amount to an amnesty for what amounts to a crime codified in international law (ie Piracy)?

    2 a) In the event that it does not, who do you think should get him? The US or Italians?

    b) If the Italians get him, would he have to be retried or would he immediately start serving his life sentence?
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

  • #2
    It is questionable that Oslo could be applied to the US. Further, charges against Abbas were dropped in the 1980's here due to lack of evidence. Some of the recorded intercepts even detail him trying to end the highjacking.

    OTOH, he had people with him who fought a two hour gun battle before he was caught. He was obviously surrounded by some type of organization. The fundamental question has to be wheather or not he is a terrorist. The simple answer is that he is. He masterminded an event that resulted in violation of International law and Murder.

    The Italians have already convicted him. We should respect their request for extradition and reward their support in the war on Terror. Let the Italians have him.
    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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    • #3
      1. No

      2. a) The Italians should get him. Plato summed it up pretty well...

      The Italians have already convicted him. We should respect their request for extradition and reward their support in the war on Terror. Let the Italians have him.


      b) I don't know. It really depends on what Italian law says and I don't know anything about that.
      KH FOR OWNER!
      ASHER FOR CEO!!
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      • #4
        1) The Oslo accords do not extend to Us and Italy. Furthermore, being it as it is, they are no longer relevant.

        2) a. I don't care. Depends who will be more serious and honest in searching justce. Actually, - I prefer it be the Italians. That way, I won't have to listen to claims about the US being an Israeli lackey. This will mean that someone else in the world, besides the US and Israel, is serious about chasing and punishing terrorists. It will also be a EU country that will take an anti-Palestinain stance.

        b. he should start serving. If they will reopen the trial, they'll be missing a good piece of the evidence. It's his own problem he chose to avoid trial. But I think that Italian law may prevail over my private opinion.

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        • #5
          Last time two parties were contesting the "right" to a third party, Solomon had a good idea...
          When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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          • #6
            He should be released!


            ....in Italy!
            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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            • #7
              Last time two parties were contesting the "right" to a third party, Solomon had a good idea...




              I don't think anyone would stop Solomon this time...
              KH FOR OWNER!
              ASHER FOR CEO!!
              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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              • #8
                Possession is 9/10 of the law. We have him so let's keep him; as an added bonus the U.S. will be able to execute this guy in the manner he deserves.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #9
                  Honestly, if Clinton signed Oslo, we have a major legal problem. Perhaps we should turn him over to the Italian in Baghdad.
                  http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ned
                    Honestly, if Clinton signed Oslo, we have a major legal problem. Perhaps we should turn him over to the Italian in Baghdad.
                    Hey Ned, I'm all in favor in turning Clinton to someone but who?

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                    • #11
                      God is gonna give clinton a whoopin and thats good enough for me
                      "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
                      'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger

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                      • #12
                        Put him in a plane to Ramallah, and have the plane "hijacked" to Rome

                        I think the Italians should get him. The Achille Lauro is still a significant trauma there, and the italian justice has been much more serious about this guy than any other country.
                        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                        • #13
                          can anyone explain to me why the Italians released this guy? The news never really explained that one.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dissident
                            can anyone explain to me why the Italians released this guy?
                            They never had him, IIRC.
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                            • #15
                              The Italians tried him in absentia. He wasn't present when they did the court case. They tried and convicted him while he was outside Italian jurisdiction for his crime.
                              Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
                              -Richard Dawkins

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