Patriots, Please Identify Yourselves.

[SlowwHand]

Your friend is better than Che, but still needs a little work.

[Japher]

He's coming around... It helps that he really likes money.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
He says that while America still has a lot wrong with it, and basically sucks, it is still the best country there is.

Gee, I guess we shouldn't try and make it any better then. We should ignore all the bad stuff it does to, cuz it could always be worse.

To you people patriot = sheep.

[Sava]

Che... obviously the smartest poster in this silly thread.

Throughout American history, there has been a progressive evolution. Slavery was abolished, women got the right to vote, blacks got the right to vote. In the early 1900's the trusts got shut down, a safety net of social welfare was put up for those who needed it, and during a period of unspeakable horror, America showed it could lead the world to freedom. But since the post-war boom, Americans have become complacent. And somehow, they have been taught that dissent, and voicing opposition to a foreign policy (engineered to suit big-business's interests) is somehow wrong. They've been taught that universal health care and public education are failed endeavors because they get in the way of corporate profits. And those patriotic and honorable people that do see the corruption and speak out against it are told to get out. Patriotism was defined by civil-disobedience in the face of tyranny. Or have people forgotten about the Boston Tea party and other such protests against imperialism?

But unfortunately, people tend to do nothing and wallow in complacency until something truly significant happens that opens people's eyes. Good people see a threat or problem and lobby for a solution i.e. Roosevelt pre-Dec. 7, 1941. Evil men attempt to capitalize on unspeakable acts and try to twist them to suit their political agendas i.e. Dubya post-9-11. Hopefully it won't take another attack to wake people up.

[SlowwHand]

All this in 200 years or so.
Not bad.

Since you're so inquisitive, why don't you, or your hero, go retrieve the information on immigration statistics for various countries?

Then, shut-up.

[Sava]

What does immigration statistics have to do with this?

And I won't tell you to "shut up".

[Japher]

Gee, I guess we shouldn't try and make it any better then.

Where was that said or indicated Che? Besides, I'm not the one whinning.

[SlowwHand]

Go find out, who goes where.
How many come to USA?
How many come to Russia?
China ?
Chile?
CUBA?

[Sava]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Go find out, who goes where.
How many come to USA?
How many come to Russia?
China ?
Chile?
CUBA?

Compared to the percentages of people coming to the US since it's existance, immigration has trickled to a slow pace. It's what's known as a "false cause" argument fallacy. In fact, the people that love this country the most seem to be the ones that have escaped oppression in other countries. It's silly that some people feel some type of arrogent sense of ownership of this land just because their ancestors came to the country a few years earlier. That's the beauty of an immigrant nation. This country is just as much home to the man who has been a citizen for 1 day as it is to the man who's great-great-great-grandparents came here.

Some might disagree. And those people don't know what freedom, democracy, and citizenship is.

[chequita guevara]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, and America is full of scoundrels.

[SlowwHand]

Sava, go find stats from last week, if it's available.
Or this time last year, or 5 years ago.
Go get some info, then argue.

[Q Classic]

it's simple. the reason why america lulls americans into complacency is because of the old roman issue of bread and circuses.

america has an overabundance of wealth... and for those who don't wish to rock the boat, who don't wish to actually think for a change, to actually exercise their rights beyond a shallow manner, this place is the only place to do it.

i love america, but i wish the american citizenry were a far more devoted lot.

[Japher]

All that stuff that Sava mummbled out:

What that have to do with patriotism? Or ones decission to be one or not?

The fact of the matter is; America is mutable. It can bend without breaking, it can change and still be the same, it reward as well as punish. If an individual wishes to make a difference they can try, if an individual wishes to sit on their hands and live off the country without doing a damn thing then they can. Not a whole lot of other countries offer this opportunity, and that is what makes it great.

If you are going to be, or not be a patriot because of a few ugly scars, or a few current ailments, than that is truly an ignorant decission.

I love America, and all its flaws. Flaws which, yes Che, we have the opportunity to change. Instead of bending over and taking it, like in most countries...

If I am wrong, then someone please tell my wife to stop trying to change me, and just love me for the alcoholic I am.

[Sava]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Sava, go find stats from last week, if it's available.
Or this time last year, or 5 years ago.
Go get some info, then argue.

Argue what? Tell me what immigration has to do with anything I've said. If not, then stop trying to distract people from the real issue.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
I love America, and all its flaws. Flaws which, yes Che, we have the opportunity to change. Instead of bending over and taking it, like in most countries...

In other countries they bend over and take cuz they'll be killed if they don't. In our country we bend over and take because: we're lazy or we're sheep. We have the opportunity to change, we just criticize the hell out of everyone who does and tell them that if they don't like things here to live.

You people try to have it both ways. You say it's the best plae in the world because we have the right to criticize it and but if you want to criticize it you should shut up. What's the point of a right you refuse to use?