Cuba Executes Three Charged in Ferry Hijacking

[SlowwHand]

"So, while hundreds of millions of pure chinese are toiling day and night under a COMMUNIST system, a few lucky party-privileged locals and a plethora of rich foreigners get to live la vida loca in this city within a city."

Yepper. Like I said, Communism is highly successful.

Let me ask you this.
If, as the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer of a commie country, you decide you want a pair of Alligator boots that retail for $1000 bucks American money.
Being The Man, you can afforf that.
So what do you do, make an edict that whomever wants a pair of these boots, gets them?
At government expense?
If communism is all for all, wouldn't that be the case?
Would you buy them from a Capitalist society, or contract your local commie boot-maker?

WHAT if, you didn't have any quality commie boot-makers, and the Capitalist pigs refused to sell you millions of boots?
An embargo, if you will.
Would you fire up your chemical and/or nuclear plants?


All this, because you wanted high-class gator boots.

[WRangler Rhymer]

If the evidence I posted that China does have a Capitalist economy made you think that I like Communist China that is not the case, if I hate Field Castro<--- Communist, that means I do not like Communist China either. I do not argue your evidence that Communist China is rotten, I just prove that it does have a Capitalist economy, not that it is great.

As for Castro, the US has NO BUSINESS restoring order there if he dies, thats a job for the Cubans and the international community at the most giving it moral support.

The Cubans do not share your thoughts as I have said I know and I am a Cuban. Ask any cuban in Miami, or Cuba when Field is dead, not while he is alive they will obvious will not say yes, because they could be killed for doing so.

Yes, very true, I also believe that eventually China will not be communist

If you feel this way then you must know that China does have a Capitalist economy, and reforms that are anti-Communist, which is Democratic reforms which will eventually lead to the people bring down the Communist Government.

[SlowwHand]

I was talking to the Commie-wannabes in the house.
Be they Cuba style, USSR style, China style, etc.

[WRangler Rhymer]

Hey can you please read pm I sent you Slowwhand.

[WRangler Rhymer]

sorry double post again.

[Thud]

WRangler Rhymer, while I must say that you had a valid point to make, you've gone beyond that. First off, because now you've degenerated into non-logical debate i.e. "said a bunch of stupid stuff" is not a valid or specific point. Second, because Master Zen is correct- China only has a few specialized economic zones where the glories of capitialism are allowed to shine.

You may know personally someone from Hong Kong or Shanghai that has described how great it is. Not only is there a significant middle class there, but the poor are not so poor because the nation is at the very least socialist (so is sweden, so I'm not saying its a bad thing).

Unfortunatly, throughout the rest of the country, most economic activities are indeed run (poorly) by the government. Even in the so-called 'privitized' industries, the government owns a controlling interest.

Here are some actual sources for you- proof, if you will, not from left or right wing university professors.

The Central Intelligence Agency's 2002 World Factbook:

The authorities have switched to a system of household and village responsibility in agriculture in place of the old collectivization, increased the authority of local officials and plant managers in industry, permitted a wide variety of small-scale enterprise in services and light manufacturing, and opened the economy to increased foreign trade and investment.

The American Heritage Dictionary:

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Note that the Chinese government, although it is moving closer to capitialism, is not yet there. Small private enterprise is allowed to form, industry is still managed by the government, though local managers are given more leeway, and all investment either originates for overseas or the government, there is no free market, no native capital. (key part of capitialism)


Oh, and while I'm on the dictionary quoting trip, I would like to commend propaganda for his explanation of socialism, which I had indeed not considered before as true but is obvious considering this:

n. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Of course, I think that, while that period is indeed a good idea, it is impractiable. Obviously, they recognized that they couldn't completely change the culture of humanity overnight, but I think they underestimated just how deeply entreched the culture is. I think that Socialism would have to be around for several generations in order to have the desired effect and allow for the switch to Communism without a hitch. This was not done in the USSR, and Communism is not this sort of socialism, resulting in a poorly done counter-culture movement, in which people were still quite lazy and inefficient, which Russia is now feeling the effects of.

[Ned]

Master Zen, everyone knows that Castro got a pass during the Cuban missle crisis. He personally has the "get out of jail free card." If we do not act to restore democracy to Cuba when Castro dies, the the Cuban people both inside Cuba and outside Cuba will feel betrayed. The only people who will protest America's actions in liberating Cuba will be the same people who are currently protesting America's actions to liberate Iraq: the Communists, some Democrats and of course France, Germany and Russia.

Hopefully Castro dies before Bush leaves office. Actually, I think that Hillary Clinton has the balls to liberate Cuba. I do not think that any other Democrat does. She'll do it just to spite her husband, who undoubtedly will be UN General Secretary at the time -- calling for an emergency session of the SC to stop that evil witch of an American president before she offends the PC nations of the world.

[SlowwHand]

So in short verse, neither Communism nor Socialism work.

[Ned]

Thud, I find it interesting that people can seriously argue that communism is a good thing given that all prior examples have been police states. Even Syria and Iraq are quasi-communist states. Some would even call them fascist.

What China now has is communism and fascism side-by-side. One is obviously doing better.

[South killer]

As for Castro, the US has NO BUSINESS restoring order there if he dies, thats a job for the Cubans and the international community at the most giving it moral support.

Totally agree. When americans will understand that your interventinon is NOT wanted????
i don't know very much about China but i remember hearing that there were communist areas and capitalist areas in a documentary.
So, China is not communist, nor capitalist. Was totally communist but is slowly on transition to a capitalist economy. But now it has a bit of both.

I don't agree with communism as i don't like dictatorships. I think the ideal form of government would be a democratic communism. however, I'd rather live in a communist state than in a neo liberal state that privatices all it's companies and has puppet governments implanted by the USA. Of all the communist states i think cuba works pretty well.(not perfect)
Going on topic:
Usa hasn't got the right to critisice Cuba about death penalty as USA uses it to. Last year about 800 people were executted in USA, about 8 times the people excecutted in cuba. Why doesn't the UN talk about this??? Why doesn't the UN ask to put trade sanctions on USA???? Please stop manipullating the world and saying with hypocrisy that you defend democracy and that you ''free' countries like Irak because all the world knows about your lies.

[Thud]

Yeah, pretty much SlowwHand, but I'm not so blunt. I try and convince the liberal scum that I have an open mind before I quash them under the yoke of sheer logic.

Seriously, some form of socialism could work, given unlikely circumstances, both economic and political. It might work economically in the US, but the political circumstances are not right, House Minority Leaders to the contrary. I don't think Communism has a chance in hell of ever working. Period. Not now, not anymore. It's like going back to having Kings, except a little more distressing to the rich. Not going to happen soon in any modern country.

[SlowwHand]

Yo, South killer! Pull your teeth in.
WTF do you think Ned is? Pssst. American.
If he recognizes, and I recognize, keep your comments muted.

I just want Cuba to take our trash, in lieu of becoming 51st state.

[Thud]

Even Syria and Iraq are quasi-communist states. Some would even call them fascist.

Yes, its fascinating. Even my dictionary quotation described the rule of a Communist government as a dictatorship. Is that any real freedom? Is a 'democratic' communism possible? I think not.

Usa hasn't got the right to critisice Cuba about death penalty as USA uses it to. Last year about 800 people were executted in USA, about 8 times the people excecutted in cuba.

Um... think of how many times larger the USA is than Cuba. End day 1 of Stats class.

Oh, and only 800? Thats nowhere near enough! Cubas got it right, firing squad. You see a drug dealer corrupting society, give him a mock trial and shoot him. Commies? Wipe them out. All of them.

As to the UN, what about our friend China's lovely invasion, occupation, and repression of Tibet, not to mention tortures, disappearence, etc. What does the UN do? Puts china on the friggen Human Rights Council!

[SlowwHand]

Kill them. Kill them all. Eat dead burned bodies.


You know. Regular capitalist activity.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Let me ask you this.
If, as the Chief Cook and Bottle Washer of a commie country, you decide you want a pair of Alligator boots that retail for $1000 bucks American money.

Leave my boots outta this.