Cuba Executes Three Charged in Ferry Hijacking

[WRangler Rhymer]

double post

[WRangler Rhymer]

Originally posted by Master Zen
WRangler Rhymer:

nice try but you need to dwell a little bit deeper and see the reality of things behind the shiny skyscrapers and hotels of Shanghai.

Chinese economic reform has been successful in many aspects, as I have said, however, it has failed to reach the majority of the Chinese population, and even in the places where it is more evident: a few coastal cities like Shanghai and Canton (The Special Zones which you apparently don't know much about).

As it stands, this "capitalism" is 1) not true capitalism as it does not serve the entire nation. Ever hear of the phrase "one country, two systems?" since you seem to know so much about Deng, you would know that it was very famous during his rule. 2) those places where capitalism apparently exists, it is geared towards foreigners, and the attraction of Foreign Direct Investment which is the foundation of Chinese economic success. China is the one nation which receives the most FDI in the world and while many of it goes to nice glitzy hotels and office buildings, most of it ends up in sweatshops where chinese workers work long hours, get paid miserable wages (if at all). That is the majority of what most chinese have to say about reform besides the lucky ones which happen to live in the privileged zones which I mentioned.

It is also no mystery to us economists that Chinese statistics are flawed and mostly overstate by much what the Chinese economy is really growing. Why is this? Because unlike in a capitalist economy, getting data on GNP and other economic statistics lends itself to gross misinterpretation when dealing with communist countries. If China were truly capitalist as you claim, estimating GNP would be no harder than any other nation.

Also, you are wrong in saying that China and Russia are no longer good friends. After the Sino-Soviet split in the 1960s, both countries viewed each other with great suspicion. However in recent years there has been a tremendous re-approachment by these two countries, and anyone here who follows current events will testify that China and Russia have a rather strong relationship, unlike that with the US which has its ups and downs whenever the US bombs a chinese embassy or crash-lands spy aircraft in chinese territory, or bugs chinese presidential craft...

The US-Chinese relationship is ultimately one of necessity (economic necessity) not precesely of true friendship as both countries view each other as their greatest long-time threat.

In conclusion I am not saying that China has not taken a series of semi-capitalist reforms, but rather, that it has not been as widespread as you seem to believe. Again, "one country, two systems", you know what that other sistem is WRangler? Yes, communism, brutal and represive as any other, communism, where people get paid ****ty wages and work their asses off, where people still die of hunger and fail to realize their full potential. That is the reality of most of the hundreds of millions of chinese who are unlucky to be among the priviledged few.

That the situation is better than 20 years ago, yes, probably much better. That is is "capitalist". Hell no, so give up...

BTW, I only admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. And that is not too often because I don't get into discussions about things I am unfamiliar about


This article may be a little extreme but no more so than yours about shiny new hotels. The truth, of course, is usually found somewhere in the middle.

Master Zen sources are: Master Zen's twisted mind,Master Zen's twisted mind, and finally Master Zen's twisted mind.
Nice try you I do believe this crap you just typed it and said "Quote". This crap with The Special Zones you apparently like to play games and deal with another reality.

One country, two systems is a witness against how wrong you think, first I never said China was a Democracy, it is still a damn Communism, all I did say is they have a capitalist economy. Hello dumb dumb, I said they have a capitalist economy not that they are a Democracy. That is why the whole Tinananmen Square deal happen the Capitalist reforms lead to stop of Communist sensoreship, then the people found out they have not freedoms, but the Communist leaders do not want to end the rule over China, and for fear that millions will die if they did so. If you read the ****ing sources I put then may be you will wake up. Thanks for going against yourself. Why did you even bother posting what you just have post without getting your story straight. You have just went against yourself now you look like a greater fool.

As for the reforms not reaching the population wrong, if the communal farms changed to free enterprises, and the free small business enterprise were created which now in this day are large Chinese corporation it is only obvious that it reaching all of China. I can show you stock quoting but I see that you only will try to type crap to deny FACT. The wages are **** and they are starving because the gape between the rich and the poor has widen greatly, humm.... I wonder why the gap is so large in China. Oh wait the have a capitalist economy that they have change to, and since there are so many people under the reforms that is why there are ****ty wages, and starvation. You are such a fool you bare witness against yourself.

Why the hell would the Chinese not follow the falling history of Russia after all the studing did with Russia. I never said that U.S. China relations were the greatest, there have been rocky roads along the way, but the FACT still remains Sino-American relations are the greatest they have been in along time.

While the Chinese are disguisted with all the Russian have done to them, and their all around failers. China is being better friends with the Russian then they might want to be no doubt of that.
I told MANY Historian people I know what you have said they all laughed. They would easily debunk all this crap you type but they don't like to deal with conspiracy theorists, and people you live in other worlds. I would gadly type their names but they have asked me not to put them out for Nuts to see them, so that something wierd will happen to them.

Seeing that I post real, and truth sources of information that you can easily look up for your self once you get your head back to the Planet Earth, since this is the case all my posts hold wieght and yours does not.

I am not going to bother trying to tell you anything because you are insaine and need professional help, and all your going to do is make me have to waste my time post more FACT to debunk all the garbage you post. It is pathetic at I have to tell you all this and you don't even bother to read FACT out of the many damn sources I wasted my time posting for you. Let me leave on this note: It was once said by the great Deng that when one strays to the left one should guard against it, when one strays to the right one should guard against it. <---- By the way this can be found in the life story of Deng Xiaoping written by his daughter. You are a fool stop talking about for the last bit of dignity you have. I do not want to post with someone so blinded that he post against himself.

BTW, I only admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. And that is not too often because I don't get into discussions about things I am unfamiliar about

I guess this is your one of those many times I am sure.

[Master Zen]

If you do not want to post then why did you even bother to reply???

I'd gladly counter your post again but since I know I will just receive the same insults and crap from you I won't waste my time, I've said enough. Believe what you want to believe, when you go to China, go and stay in a glitzy hotel owned by FOREIGNERS, built with FOREIGN money, and occupied by guess who, yes, FOREIGNERS and , then go to a sweatshop, where Chinese people work, go to the country side and see who's toiling the land, yes, Chinese.

[Master Zen]

Guess who lives here?

yes... foreigners

[Master Zen]

.... and guess who lives here?

yes...LOCALS

[Master Zen]

Say hi to Deng for me, by the way... tell him he really did a good job. As a foreigner I'll be looking forward to living in one of those nice suburbs or staying in a glitzy Shanghai hotel if I ever go over there...

just so you and me are on the same plane of thought: capitalism geared towards foreign direct investment hardly qualifies China as a capitalist country. But something tells me you'll never accept that.

I personally suggest you start reading a decent financial journal, The Economist for starters, there have been so many articles explaining the problems of the Chinese economy that I cannot begin to list them. At least that'll keep you from claiming my sources are works of my twisted mind (oh and re-read your posts, you're the one who sounds like a nut-case not me, a bit of anger-management could do you good).

[WRangler Rhymer]

The US-Chinese relationship is ultimately one of necessity (economic necessity) not precesely of true friendship as both countries view each other as their greatest long-time threat.

And the relation with Russia is out of some necessity as well.

As for your post all you did was show how way off you are. First all I did is give evidence that China has a capitalist economy, and not that China is a great Communism. What you did is give a arguement that China is not great, which I was not even talking about in the first place. You gave no evidence that it is has no capitalist economy, all you said is China is not great and a articule on its failures, and your thoughts that it is not a capitalist economy with no proof. I do not even know if this articule is a 15 years old's report, or a true legitamate articule of some magazine, or paper, you put no source.

[Az]

Damn, those pics are ugly! They should've hired a bunch of modernist and post modernist architects.

Now I know what they call "The Hive".

[Ned]

MasterZen, As the wealth of the average Chinese citizen grows, the people will demand more political rights. If the government grants those rights, you will see the fail of the one party state in due course. If they continue to deny those rights, or move to take away economic liberties previously granted, the people may revolt, as Americans once did against the British and the French against the Monarchy.

What I do not believe is that China will stay a one party state forever.

As to Castro, when he dies, I suspect we will intervene to "restore" "order. We can better influence events a toward democracy with our army in place.

[WRangler Rhymer]

Why the hell did you post pictures of China, like I said I never said China is a great Communism. All I did is give proof that China has a capitalist economy. Remember:

Tell me then how China has a capitalist economy... that is all I ask.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Azazel
Damn, those pics are ugly! They should've hired a bunch of modernist and post modernist architects.

Now I know what they call "The Hive".

Oh, they did! Across the river in the Pudong Financial District, built since the mid-90s and now housing the most impressive skyline in the world outside of New York and Hong Kong:

And guess where the money came from? Foreign Direct Investment. And a big huge waste by the way, as I've read office vacancy rates are 40% or more in Shanghai alone.

So, while hundreds of millions of pure chinese are toiling day and night under a COMMUNIST system, a few lucky party-privileged locals and a plethora of rich foreigners get to live la vida loca in this city within a city.

And BTW, all these 3 pictures are from Shanghai

[WRangler Rhymer]

(oh and re-read your posts, you're the one who sounds like a nut-case not me, a bit of anger-management could do you good).

How is that all I did is give proof. Shows that you are the real nut case, and I did get pissed because you insult me and said a bunch of stupid stuff.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ned
MasterZen, As the wealth of the average Chinese citizen grows, the people will demand more political rights. If the government grants those rights, you will see the fail of the one party state in due course. If they continue to deny those rights, or move to take away economic liberties previously granted, the people may revolt, as Americans once did against the British and the French against the Monarchy.

What I do not believe is that China will stay a one party state forever.

As to Castro, when he dies, I suspect we will intervene to "restore" "order. We can better influence events a toward democracy with our army in place.

Yes, very true, I also believe that eventually China will not be communist. However, take the USSR for example, liberty in that case was not preceded by economic growth, au contraire, it was preceded by economic stagnation.

And although Deng might have been an economic Gorbachev, he was no political. China is still a very repressive nation.

As for Castro, the US has NO BUSINESS restoring order there if he dies, thats a job for the Cubans and the international community at the most giving it moral support. When you will get that stupid idea off your head that the US army is not wanted everywhere to solve everybody's problems? Would you have liked a foreign army to solve the Florida electoral crisis? No, so stop trying to justify intervention in other countries when you haven't even asked the people if they want it. You know why the US is so hated? Precisely because people think like that. I'd like you and others to step into the shoes of the countries you intend to "help" and ask yourself if you would want a foreign army to settle your business. The answer is NO.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by WRangler Rhymer


How is that all I did is give proof. Shows that you are the real nut case, and I did get pissed because you insult me and said a bunch of stupid stuff.

I insulted you, I insulted you??!?!?!?!?

Count how many direct insults YOU'VE dished out and then say who's the nutcase.

[Master Zen]

WRangler Rhymer:

In your first post directed at me you said: "China has a Capitol (sic) economy"

That statement says that the chinese economy is exclusively a capitalist economy and nothing else. If you had said, "China has some elements of a capitalist economy", I would not have argued.

But as it stands, in response to our original posts, I'm sorry, but YOU ARE WRONG as the Chinese economy, though including elements of capitalism, is not a true capitalist economy. Deal with it.