Dancing in the streets!

[Drake Tungsten]

"Lionel Richie was the best singer-songwriter of his generation."

I don't know which is funnier

Who's better? Admittedly, he had little competition. However, you must acknowledge that the man has a way with a tune, love songs in particular...

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ned
Spiffor: if you agree that we need to keep the other Arab states out of the internal politics of Iraq (they all have conflicts of interest), then they also have keep the UN out. I don't see how the UN can be in charge of the politics of Iraq, without having to listen to, pacify and/or comply with virtually every Arab demand made upon it.

Isn't what the UN is there for? To listen to and analyze all points of view? What you want, and many in the US want is for the UN only listen to the demands of two countries the US and UK, and that is not multilateralism. Sorry but all countries have a voice and a vote, tough luck, but you signed the UN Charter so deal with it.

Grumbler, one of the things we certainly must do and keep control of for a period time is the education of the Iraqi youth. Can you imagine classes resuming in Iraq using Saddam Hussein's textbooks that teach anti-Americanism and hatred of the the Jews and Israel?

Hmm... and what are the US textbooks going to teach but another distorted view of world history..

Also, should we insist that Iraq enter into a peace treaty with Israel as a condition for turning over power to a new elected government?

I'll agree, if only Mr. Blix is sent to Israel and if Israel does not comply send 250,000 coalition troops to take out Sharon.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand

Not you.

At the risk of being returned to my cell, I was addressing the illustrious GePap, Che, and Master Zen for starters.
Worthless as teats on a boar hog.

Slowwhand:

First of all I did not spam any more than you have, and at least have posted semi-intelligent arguments unlike your insult-riddled crap.

Why you haven't been banned is a mystery that defies my logic.

have a nice day

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ned
Also, should we insist that Iraq enter into a peace treaty with Israel as a condition for turning over power to a new elected government?

Abso-freakinng-lutely not!

You can't say you are there to liberate someone and then put conditions on their freedom. If what we say is true, that Iraqis should be rfee to rule themselves, then they must be equally free to decide their foreing affairs. Any treaty the Us forced down upon Iraq would be seen as illegitimate, and I have yet said ntohing abou how such a move would be percieved all around the Arab world, including Iraq itself.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GePap


Abso-freakinng-lutely not!

You can't say you are there to liberate someone and then put conditions on their freedom. If what we say is true, that Iraqis should be rfee to rule themselves, then they must be equally free to decide their foreing affairs. Any treaty the Us forced down upon Iraq would be seen as illegitimate, and I have yet said ntohing abou how such a move would be percieved all around the Arab world, including Iraq itself.

I think yes. But this explains, does it not, why it is so important for us to move aggressively now a Middle East peace plan. We simply cannot turn Iraq lose without a peace treaty with Israel. I also agree that we cannot force Iraq into a peace treaty with Israel that the majority of Iraqis would find objectionable.

I wonder what the Bush Middle East peace plan is?

[Master Zen]

Most Iraquis would not support any type of peace deal first of all. Second of all, you are there now to rebuild the country and establish democracy and freedom, NOT to alter its foreign policy as you wish.

What will you do when the new Iraqui government rejects the peace treaty it was forced to sign? Re-invade?

[GePap]

I wonder what the Bush Middle East peace plan is?

I am sure you will be able to find a copy of the "road-map" once it comes out. The question is whether the Bush admin. will allow Sharon to edit it as he would want.

[Ned]

Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact.

Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq.

As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

[Ned]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Most Iraquis would not support any type of peace deal first of all. Second of all, you are there now to rebuild the country and establish democracy and freedom, NOT to alter its foreign policy as you wish.

What will you do when the new Iraqui government rejects the peace treaty it was forced to sign? Re-invade?

As I said, we stay there until they agree to peace with Israel. But the deal has to be fair and agreed to by both Israel and the Palestinians.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ned
Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact.

Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq.

As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

What you dont want is for "certain" Arab states to have voice (i.e. Syria and Iran).

If you fear this then you are just admitting that the democracy the US will set up will be too weak and meager to let the Iraqi people run things for themselves. You have full faith in the establishment of democracy but apprently very little in whether that democracy will succeed. If this is so there was no reason for this war in the first place and would just demonstrate the main objective of this conflict was to topple Saddam, not leave Iraq with the institutions necessary for it to succeed in the future.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Ned


As I said, we stay there until they agree to peace with Israel. But the deal has to be fair and agreed to by both Israel and the Palestinians.

So you distrust the new US-installed democratic government to distinguish fair deals from others?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ned
Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact.

Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq.

I take it you want to fight every Islamic and Arab country then?

Consultation with the OIC and AL is extremely important - not to let them run Iraq or shape Iraqi policy, but to defuse propaganda in the arab streets that we're using Iraq as a base for Yankee imperialism.

As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

Ah, so we replace cult-of-personality indoctrination on the greatness of Saddam with America uber alles indoctrination. How many generations of our kids do you want to be going off to fight Arabs?

We have no business going beyond seeing that textbooks are depoliticized, and that education is readily available.

[MichaeltheGreat]

BTW, we don't need to give a **** if Iraq has a peace treaty with Israel, any more than we care about their relations with Zambia. After what we've done and are doing now, the Iraqis won't have power projection abilities across their borders for a long time.

Keeping our hands off their foreign policy is one of the best ways to prevent and derail any propagandizing from the Islamic street.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

Keeping our hands off their foreign policy is one of the best ways to prevent and derail any propagandizing from the Islamic street.

MtG, you and I don't usually agree on things, but I have to admit this is right on . The more the US meddles in the affairs of the Iraquis which have no part in nation-building, the better for the Iraquis to end up feeling at least less negatively about the US occupation.

[Ned]

MtG and Master Zen, the war with Syria and Iran has already begun. Their fighters are in Iraq engaging coalition troops. They had a meeting just prior to the Iraq war's start. Now we can see the pattern of their agreement.

I don't know where Bush will take this. But Fliescher has already confrimed that Rumsfeld's tough talk on Syria and Iran is endorsed by the president.

Reports from Damascus indicate that that government knows that the US will soon make a series of demands on it. One of these will be to disarm Hizbollah. The report said, Syria will refuse.

I now see that war with Syria is inevitable.

I also think the ayatollah's of Iran will be overthrown.