Assassination? Decapitation!

[Spiffor]

I'm not sure the Iraqis have boasted the civilian casualties durng the war. I don't remember hearing of ridiculous amouts of dead people, even though I've seen quite qome images from the Iraqi propaganda in the French news.

[Az]

I've seen quite qome images from the Iraqi propaganda in the French news.

[Ned]

I think the distinction is made that targeting people for assassination under circumstances where you control, at least in theory, the territory in which they reside is "murder." The underlying assumption seems to be that one could arrest the targeted individuals, put them on trial and give them due process before executing them.

When the US targets an enemy leader, they are combatants directly involved in making decisions on the conduct of a war against the United States. As enemy combatants, they cannot be arrested or put on trial or given due process. Until they are captured, they are subject being killed by assassination.

Of course the problem here with Israel and the Palestinians is that Israel simply cannot make arrests of the targeted individuals -- or can they?

[Spiffor]

Az :

I assume it was part of the deal for French journalists : they could stay in Baghdad, bbut their channels had to show some Iraqi propaganda (this is pure assumption). Anyways, France2 showed much footage both from CNN and from the Iraqi TV, as well as their own footage.
Watching Iraqi propaganda was quite interesting, for the ministry of information's people didn't seem to uderstand their job : rather than calling to fight the vicious invaders from abroad / the decadent yanquis, they showed people eager to sacrifice themselves for Saddam Like he would have gathered more support with this old trick.

But I don't remember having seen the Iraqis boasting their civilian losses. I remember watching TV a few hours after the "decapitation" : CNN was reported to have reported 12 casualties, while IraqTV alledgedly reported 1 dead.

[Sirotnikov]

This whole thing is silly.

Eli, I don't know why are you being so angry over the US foreign office doing what foreign offices are meant to do.

As for the point itself - I think that much less than being hypocritical, the US were unaware of the absolute necessity of these methods, and are only slowly becoming more and more aware of it now, in Iraq and in Sept 11.

Btw, i would like to mention that the percentage of times we used air support in actions in urban environemnts is much much much lower than the US.

I think the US habits are infact much more protective of a US soldier, than IDF habits. I would assume that using US tactics, we would have bombed Jenin to the ground before sending there elite paratroopers.


And if you're wondering why Washington is employing Israeli tactics - it's because they had limited experience and tactics of urban combat and even less "luck" with regards to civilian casualties and collateral damage. This lead to Israeli military officials and former IDF Chief of Staff, now Minister of Defense, Shaul Mofaz to go to the Pentagon and submit files upon files of recommendations, strategies and tactics.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ned
Of course the problem here with Israel and the Palestinians is that Israel simply cannot make arrests of the targeted individuals -- or can they?

Why wouldn't they be able to?

[Edan]

Originally posted by Frogger


Why wouldn't they be able to?

Cause they might go boom?

It's easy to say "just go in and arrest them". Practically, it isn't always that easy, and might end up causing a worse and uglier situation resulting in more deaths.
Particularily with snipers, suicide bombers and human shields being used.

Of course, Israel has done a lot of arreessting, too, from what I understand - but thats usually when they've gone in and have taken control of the location (and situation).

Hmm, maybe the US should have just simply arrested Saddam instead of targeting him?

[Kuciwalker]

It's stupid because, as the Israeli goverment is democratic, he's also expressing his opinion as to the proper course of action for his government.

[Edan]

Originally posted by skywalker
It's stupid because, as the Israeli goverment is democratic, he's also expressing his opinion as to the proper course of action for his government.

Just like the peace protesters do here in the US. So what? Is diversity of opinion a bad thing? Do we have to only think one thing and talk one way? Is that what democracy is about?

[Eli]

Eli, I don't know why are you being so angry over the US foreign office doing what foreign offices are meant to do.

I fully understand the realpolitik behind this. It's obvious that before all this mess in Iraq the US had to calm down Arab members and try to appear neutral and it's obvious that now they realised that sometimes the tool of assasination has to be used.

I understand that, but I still have the full right to rant about it on public forums as much as I want.

[Az]

Why wouldn't they be able to?

ROTFLMAO

[MRT144]

eli, i think the reason it was condemned was because the assasination doesnt HELP the situation youre in any more than him being dead. it will only make a martyr out of him and incite more violence.

[Eli]

Bla bla bla, repeating the same mantra all over again...

The facts on the ground are simple. Since the beginning of the Intifada at least two "generations" of terror leaders were liquidated, and every generation is less and less effective.

When the intifada started the regional leaders were 30-40 years old veteran terrorists from the PLO days, when they went boom their deputies took command. Now I hear at least every couple weeks that the leader of Hamas/IJ/Al-aqsa Martyrs in this or that city was killed.
And you know who are those people who are getting killed? They are inexperienced 20 years olds, at best. And their replacements are even worse.
The leading bomb engineers are long dead, the leading organizators are long dead, the leading recruiters of suicide bombers are long dead and the results can be seen.

Just compare the level of terror before Defensive Shield, where Israel brought the anti-terror fighting to a whole new level, and after.
Yes, they have successes, sometimes very painful ones, and their motivation might be higher. But the failure rate is enormous and the average "quality" of their attacks is very low.

Motivation, shmotvation. For me the only thing important is that in the last months it is possible to sanely live here without hearing about attacks twice per day.

[Eli]

Besides, wont killing Saddam make a martyr out of him and incite more violence?

[MRT144]

do the people of iraq really love saddam? do palestinians really love the islamic jihad?

no, and maybe