On the Venzuelan "Strike"

[monkspider]

Good post Che, very informative. I haven't seen you around these parts too much these days. Keeping busy?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
He's got us there, boys. Course, capitalism's failures are far more spectacular.

The USSR is really hard to top, but do tell.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

The USSR is really hard to top, but do tell.

Uh...not all commies endorsed the USSR. Besides even they were better off than they are now.

[Jarvin]

Besides even they were better off than they are now.

I'm not sure the majority of them would agree with you.
Besides the country still has to clean up a lot of messes left by the communist regime.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Jarvin

I'm not sure the majority of them would agree with you.
Besides the country still has to clean up a lot of messes left by the communist regime.

It depends who you talk to. Zuganov used to get a fair number of votes. One only has to look at the lowered life expectancy in Russia these days to know that something is seriously wrong.

Who cares about the Soviet Union anyway, or Red China? That has nothing to do with my brand of socialism.

[Jarvin]

Who cares about the Soviet Union anyway, or Red China? That has nothing to do with my brand of socialism.

Socialism is socialism, i dont like any of it.
"A government that is big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take it all away" - Barry Goldwater

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Agathon


Uh...not all commies endorsed the USSR. Besides even they were better off than they are now.

I've always considered that line to be right up there with "Not all Roman Catholics endorse the Vatican."

[KrazyHorse]

No, more like "not all Christians endorse the Vatican"

Yours would be more appropriate if Ag was a Stalinist...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk

I've always considered that line to be right up there with "Not all Roman Catholics endorse the Vatican."

True too.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Agathon


Uh...not all commies endorsed the USSR. Besides even they were better off than they are now.

The reason they're ****ed now is largely due to the enormous problems created and covered up in the Soviet era.

[Worthingtons]

Communism is such a faulted ideal that it's laughable. Why would anyone strive to be financially equal with everybody (with no possibility to change that)?? Surely only the no-hopers who have no ambition and/or very little intelligence (hence cannot compete with most people in the job market) would strive for such a reality?!?!
Where would the motivation be for working? , Would the Job satisfaction come from if there wasnt a point to gaining promotion!?! what about target driven people - if you coudnt string money incentives to thier work woudnt they be less satisfied? also, apart from to culviate the mind out of sheer enjoyment there woudnt be much benefit from Education.

Communism will always fail, socialism will severely stifle all aspects of life for the Majority - both ideals are garbage.

The Modern person often wants to make something of themselves, they want to achieve things and be recognised, people want to be able to differentiate themselves so they keep a unique identity and people want to see rewards for thier efforts. If you let these people do as they please society is better for everyone, and Capitalism is the only ideal which allows this.

Cheers
Matt

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
The reason they're ****ed now is largely due to the enormous problems created and covered up in the Soviet era.

In fact the current condition of most of the former USSR states is evidence of the problems of communism. You're talking about an estimated 1 million Kazakhs being killed in a collectivization effort during the late 1920's and 1930's in the USSR, primarily due to starvation. Killing a million people in one province alone due to failure in your economic policies is a level of failure that capitalist economies have enourmous trouble matching. I'm currently studied the history of the Central Asian republics under the Soviet Union, and its one amazing economic screwup after another. For those who want further information, a good place to start for Kazakhstan is The Kazakhs by Martha Brill Olcott.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by monkspider
Keeping busy?

Yep. Between work and finally begining to have a social life, I don't have much time for ACS-OT.

[Felch]

When governing structures fail, the impact of their failure is comparable to the influence and reach the government has. Thus, government failures in capitalist countries tend to have a mild impact, when the capitalism goes hand in hand with the free market. When the government allies itself strongly with business as in colonies and coporatist states, its **** ups have a much greater impact.

The real problems with capitalism arise because it often isn't free market capitalism. Under the free market abuses do exist, but the amount of damage any business can do is limited to its own reach, which is almost never greater than the government. There do still exist problems, the free market isn't perfect, but it does tend to limit the extent of damage.

The key solution to this is a government that protects the free market as a system, but is severe and harsh towards corporate abuses. Businesses should be treated with the same hatred and suspicion that blacks and hispanics get from the police every day. A business doing something suspicious should be investigated, and they and their workers should never profit from criminal activity.

In terms of the Soviet Union, communists around the world were generally as mindless in their support of it as right wingers were of Pinochet and other criminals. Just because nobody is willing to admit it now doesn't mean that the USSR, PRC, and other communist states weren't poster boys for virtually every organized communist party. There's nothing wrong with admitting that communists were proud of it. They could point to the Soviet Union and brag about all the wonderful ways it treated its workers and how scientifically advanced it was and a bunch of other things. The USSR made many important contributions to the world, just like capitalist countries. It's important to accept however that those contributions came at a horrific price. That's all anybody is saying.

[GePap]

The probem is thinking you can have business competing and separating themselves form the political process. Economics is not divorced from politics, never was, and never will.

Overall, i do agree with most of what Felch said.. hmm, oe of the first times that ever happened.