Whatever happened to the "Field Marshal"?

[Sava]

Well? In WW2, I recall many Field Marshalls... but I don't recall the Allies using the rank. Why isn't the rank used any more?

[GePap]

The British had Field Marshalls (Monty was one), and the French and Russian had Marshalls (Petain, Zhukov) too. Interestingly, the Japanese ddin;t have Marshalls.

I guess the Term is seen as too aristocratic and undemocratic. Also, perhaps no military leaders rise to the level of a Marshall, in terms of what kind of commands they have.

Note, the Chinese and NK still have Marshalls.

[Dinner]

As far as I know the U.S. never used the title Field Marshall. The Germans did and I believe Monty was a Field Marshall before they upped his rank to General but I can't recall hearing anyone else with that title.

They also have done away with the five star General's rank and now the want to be Eisenhowers must content themselves with four stars.

[Chemical Ollie]

The last Swedish Field Marshal I remember was Magnus Stenbock. He died in a prison in Denmark in the mid 1700's. The danes should ask before they ask things...

[Ned]

The Five-Star Ranks
During World War II, the need was perceived for a General and Fleet Officer rank above that of General and Admiral, primarily to provide a level of parity with the British and German "Field Marshal" and "Admiral of the Fleet". Congress created the Army rank of "General of the Army" and the Navy rank of "Fleet Admiral". The use of five-star ranks is restricted to war-time and the last promotions to the this level were as a result of World War II service. There are no longer any surviving Generals of the Army or Fleet Admirals (the last to die was Omar Bradley). The Army recipients were George C. Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Henry H. Arnold (re-designated General of the Air Force on May 7, 1949) and Omar N. Bradley. The Navy recipients were Chester W. Nimitz, William D. Leahy, Ernest J. King and William F. Halsey.

Note:
The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

After Washington's death, an Act of May 14, 1800, specifically authorized President Adams to suspend any further appointment to the office of General of the Armies of the United States, "having reference to economy and the good of the service." Although the office was not expressly referred to in any of the actions taken to reduce or disband forces that had been raised in contemplation of war with France, it ceased when it was not mentioned in the Act of March 16, 1802, which determined the peacetime military establishment.

Congress enacted legislation authorizing the grade of General of the Army on July 25, 1866, and on that date the new grade was conferred on Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant. The grade was recognized and continued in various acts until the Act of July 15, 1870, which contained the requirement that "the offices of general and lieutenant general shall continue until a vacancy shall exist in the same, and no longer, and when such vacancy shall occur in either of said offices shall become inoperative, and shall, by virtue of this act, from thence forward be held to be repealed."

William T. Sherman, Grant's successor as Commanding General of the Army, was appointed as General of the Army on March 4, 1869, and upon his retirement in February 1884 was placed on the retired list as General of the Army. Under the provisions of the Act of March 3, 1885, authorizing the appointment of a "general of the Army on the retired list," this grade was also conferred on General Grant shortly before his death on July 23, 1885. The title ceased to exist as a grade of military rank at Sherman's death on February 14, 1891.

Sherman's successor was Lieutenant General Philip H. Sheridan, who could not be promoted to General of the Army because of the 1870 law. Congress, however, enacted legislation on June 1, 1888, shortly before Sheridan's death, that discontinued the grade of lieutenant general and merged it with that of General of the Army. The grade of General of the Army was conferred on Sheridan and was discontinued when he died, while still on active duty on August 5, 1888.

War Department General Orders No. 75, September 5, 1866, prescribed that the insignia for the newly authorized General of the Army grade would be four stars. General Grant wore this insignia, as did General Sherman until War Department General Orders No. 92, October 26, 1872, changed the insignia to two silver stars with the arms of the United States in gold between them. General Sherman, and later General Sheridan, wore the new insignia.

Congress revived the grade of General of the Armies of the United States by Public Law 45, approved September 3, 1919, to honor General John J. Pershing for his wartime service. He retired with that rank on September 13, 1924, and held it until his death on July 15, 1948. No other officer held this specific title until 1976, when President Ford posthumously appointed George Washington General of the Armies of the United States and specified that he would rank first among all officers of the Army, past and present.

When General Pershing was appointed General of the Armies, he continued to wear the four stars that he, as well as Generals Tasker H. Bliss and Peyton C. March, had adopted under the provisions of then current uniform regulations, which permitted them to prescribe the insignia denoting their grade. Army Regulations 600-35, Personnel: The Prescribed Uniform, October 12, 1921, and all subsequent editions during General Pershing's lifetime, made no mention of insignia for General of the Armies but prescribed that generals would wear four stars. General Pershing at no time wore more than four stars.

Following the establishment of the General of the Army grade on December 14, 1944, Army Regulations 600-35 were changed to prescribe that Generals of the Army would wear five stars. Although General Pershing continued to wear only four, he remained preeminent among all Army personnel, by virtue of Congressional action and Army Regulations governing rank and precedence, until his death on July 15, 1948.

http://www.amvets-ny.org/reference/rank_insignia_army.html

[Dr Strangelove]

The term "field marshall" was first introduced by Napoleon I believe, and was used as a special reward to his best field commanders. Field Marshals received choice compensations and fiefdoms. Napoleon often used a somewhat unique command structure. While each division and corps had its own commanding general during battle Napoleon would often have a collection of his best generals with him at his command post. When he became inspired to devise a plan of attack he would select one of his general staff, explain his plan and then commission the man to gather the needed forces and lead them into battle, temporarily usurping the position of the units' usual commanders during the attack.

Due to the inherently aristocratic nature of the position of the field marshal the term was never adopted by the US military. European nations on the other hand ate it up long after Napoleon's death.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I thought Schwartzkopf was made a 5-star on his retirement?

[Jaguar]

BTW, is FMK still around?

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
BTW, is FMK still around?

If you mean Field Marshal Klesh, he mysteriously dropped out of Civ life right at the time the RF succession game was about to start.

[Seeker]

Yeah, noticed that the Germans and French seemed in love with having 'Field Marshals'...

In Europa Universalis some of your highest commanders in the medieval age have the rank "Field Chief Judge", which was a real rank, maybe there is a relationship?

I think it also has a lot to do with Republic-ism. Most other Republics don't have Field Marshals either, I think because they don't like creating military ranks of such high status, independence, and power.

I don't think any republic will stay a republic too much longer if there is a squad of jack-booted Field Marshals with tons of influence hanging around in positions of power....

[Sava]

Wow, thanks for the info guys!

I luv you guys

[Sirotnikov]

can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?

[Sirotnikov]

bump

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
can someone explain in words the difference between the different kinds of ranks?

what's the difference between a general officer and a field grade officer and a company grade officer and warrant officers and non-comissioned officers?

i don't know, but i would guess it has to do with what is under their control, like a captain has a battalion or regiment, a general controls an army or regiments and a field marshall controlls the entire area of operqations.


though i just made that all up and am most likley wrong.

[DAVOUT]

Marshal is not a rank, it is an honour, like a medal. It can only be granted in theory to generals who have commanded in chief on a theater.