Greek justice system abuses accused rights again.

[TheStinger]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2886421.stm

Well I'm shocked. I was led to believe that in Greece mistakes by the authorities were impossible and that the justice system was infalliable.

[CerberusIV]

It has also been reported on the TV news that some of the planespotters are still trying to get their bail money back from the Greek authorities.

For the country credited with inventing democracy and many of the ideas used in the modern state the greeks don't seem to be very good at implementing them.

Greece wasn't on my holiday destinations list anyway!

[Worthingtons]

Quality stuff stinger... i thought that kinda stuff only happened in the UK

[MarkG]

"The British Embassy in Athens were not informed of David Wilson's arrest until after his trial,"

same thing happened a few weeks ago when UK arrested a Greek for connections with a Greek terrorist organization (17N)

the case was based on the possesion of books and some forum posts on a web site


btw

David Wilson, 44, from Wyke, near Bradford, was arrested on 18 March in the Greek port of Patros when 19 Iraqi Kurds were found in the back of his truck.

...

He denied all knowledge of his illegal cargo.

yeah right....

[MarkG]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2822511.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2841005.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2827601.stm

[Greek] Foreign Ministry spokesman Panos Beglitis said the government found out about the arrest through media reports.

you started it

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by MarkG
same thing happened a few weeks ago when UK arrested a Greek for connections with a Greek terrorist organization (17N)

The Greek person you refer to has not AFAIK actually been tried yet. It is not good that he can apparently be held indefinitely without trial but at least he hasn't been stuffed with a jail term and a heavy fine after a joke of a trial.

There is a big problem with refugees trying to cross the English Channel by sneaking into the back of trucks. It is difficult for a lone driver to know if someone has sneaked into the back of his truck but drivers and their employers can be fined if they do not report any suspicions to the UK authorities.

The point here is that in the UK this driver would have had proper access to a lawyer and a qualified interpreter if needed and time for both a prosecution and a defence case to be put together. I suppose he is lucky this offence doesn't carry a death penalty in Greece or he might not be still with us.

If you follow one of the links on the source TheStinger quoted it leads to a story about a campaign for common judicial standards across Europe. Any prospect of having to raise their standards must worry the Greek authorities!

EDIT: I checked the links. The case of the Greek man is still ongoing. I do notice that there has been time for the Greek embassy to get involved in his case before the trial at which he can actually be convicted and sentenced. A slight difference!

[Gangerolf]

"The Greek authorities imposed on David Wilson a local Greek lawyer who only spoke Greek and an interpreter who turned out to be the town's local jeweller."

Mr Wilson will be released from jail if he can pay the authorities £20,000.

"There is no one there who speaks English. Physically he is very weak as he has not been eating as the sanitation is so bad."

note to self: never get in trouble in greece

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by MarkG

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2822511.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2841005.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2827601.stm

[Greek] Foreign Ministry spokesman Panos Beglitis said the government found out about the arrest through media reports.

you started it

This thread was an attempt to show that **** ups happen in all jurisdictions. I do not know wheteher he is guilty or not. One or two posters on this site seem to think that only in the UK do mistakes/abuses happen

[MarkG]

at least he hasn't been stuffed with a jail term and a heavy fine after a joke of a trial.

no he's just stuffed in a jail awaiting his trial with a joke of evidence

It is difficult for a lone driver to know if someone has sneaked into the back of his truck

yes, it takes around 60 seconds to open a door and look into the back of his truck

The point here is that in the UK this driver would have had proper access to a lawyer and a qualified interpreter if needed and time for both a prosecution and a defence case to be put together.

well he has plenty of time for the appeal

I do notice that there has been time for the Greek embassy to get involved in his case before the trial

an embassy that was notified by the media....

btw, the driver is not stuffed in jail for 8 months. he can pay bail and walk out

[MarkG]

Originally posted by TheStinger
This thread was an attempt to show that **** ups happen in all jurisdictions.

well that wasnt quite clear

[MarkG]

btw, bbc doesnt know which is the left side of the greek flag and what's right

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by MarkG
btw, bbc doesnt know which is the left side of the greek flag and what's right

As no one in the UK knows the correct way to fly our own flag its not surprsing.

[Jack the Bodiless]

No sign of Paitikis yet?

This will be fun...

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by MarkG

It is difficult for a lone driver to know if someone has sneaked into the back of his truck

yes, it takes around 60 seconds to open a door and look into the back of his truck

It then takes about another 60 seconds to walk back to the cab, start the engine and drive off, which is about fifteen seconds longer than it takes a bunch of refugees to open the back of the truck and climb in.

It seems there are two types of judicial system here. In one type a person can be arrested, then whether they are innocent or not is argued, then they are either convicted and jailed or released. In the other they are arrested, convicted and jailed, then their innocence or guilt is argued and they may eventually be released.

The difference is in the application of concepts such as "reasonable doubt" and "innocent until proven guilty".

Even if there is little practical difference, there is the problem of receiving a criminal conviction, even if rescinded, and the psycholgical difference between wondering if one will go to prison or if one will get out.

As for posting bail, I commented on the fact that some of the planespotters are still trying to get their money back. It also assumes that he can raise the money, which may be more difficult if it will never be seen again once paid.

[Demerzel]

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
No sign of Paitikis yet?

This will be fun...

paitkis is banned until the end of the war for posting about his pleasure at seeing coalition deaths.

on topic, anti-terrorism laws have gained too much power since 11/9 which sadly results in overzealousness in some quarters.

Comparing f*ckups in the UK & Greece isn't going to help though. Two wrongs don't make a right unless you're Homer Simpson