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I'll post the spectrum soon
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"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796 -
Nah, the Latin American-style right wing authoritarian state (including Franco's Spain) is quite different from your fascist states (Germany, Italy, etc.). Fascist states typically favor industrial interests while the Latin American model is tied to large landowners and the Church.Most of these juntas (I'm thinking of the Latin American model here) were pretty close to what I'd term fascism, BTW.
In capitalist societies, the state is run by the economic authorities. Nazi Germany was no different.Corporations flourishing does not mean capitalism! Many, if not all, of these corporations became controlled by Nazi Party Members. Free enterprise (ie, easy entry and exist out of the market) was almost wiped out. This is basically a requirement for capitalism (remember, market doesn't equal capitalism either).Last edited by Ramo; April 4, 2003, 03:01."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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I agree with Imran's definition of fascism, BTW (except for the capitalism part; fascists had no problems with economic hierarchies any more than they had problems with political hierarchies).Last edited by Ramo; April 4, 2003, 02:57."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-BokononComment
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Here it is. Its not pretty, but I'm not too great with MS Paint.Attached Files"The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796Comment
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BTW, Imran's definition isn't as bad as the first few definitions, but its not entirely "correct", either."The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796Comment
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Before I go to bed, here are 10 similarities between Nazism(contrary to Imran, there are different strands of Fascist ideology: Nazi, Italian Fascism, the Romanian Legion ideology just to name a few) and Soviet Communism, paraphrased from Stanley Payne's book "A History of Fascism 1914-1945", pgs. 210-211. These 10 illustrate the functional similarites between the two totalitarian regimes.
1. Nazis fel that the Soviets were their only truly revolutionary counterparts. (Nazis considered their party to be revolutionary, not conservative)
2.Shared a revolutionary action theory, believed in the value of successful ideological innovation
3. shared doctrine of constant struggle
4. rigid elitism and leadership principle
5. shared the idea of the proletarian as the basis of political action
6.Single party dictatorship, aim to tear down class system
7. Creation of a party army; army is subordinate to the party
8. Emphasis on militarization, promotion of revolutionary war
9.Economic Policy phase based on partial pluralism early in regime
10. International projection of new ideological myths capable of eliciting an international response."The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796Comment
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4 quick areas of difference between pre-WW2 Italian Fascism and Nazism, also from Payne's book
- Nazi Germany was totalitarian, Italy was not (despite what Mussolini claimed)
-NSDAP much more popular support than the PNF
-Italian Fascists were not anti-Semitic
-Mussolini aimed for traditional Nationalist/imperialist goals for Italy. Hitler aimed for a radical racial restructuring of Europe based on the Germannic "Volk", not necessarily the German state."The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is to have with them as little political connection as possible... It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far as we are now at liberty to do it." George Washington- September 19, 1796Comment
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Wouldn't say that I agree with all of these 10 points or consider all of them relevant.Originally posted by nationalist
Before I go to bed, here are 10 similarities between Nazism(contrary to Imran, there are different strands of Fascist ideology: Nazi, Italian Fascism, the Romanian Legion ideology just to name a few) and Soviet Communism, paraphrased from Stanley Payne's book "A History of Fascism 1914-1945", pgs. 210-211. These 10 illustrate the functional similarites between the two totalitarian regimes.
1-3 are ideals shared by nearly all ideologies, especially in their earlier phases.1. Nazis fel that the Soviets were their only truly revolutionary counterparts. (Nazis considered their party to be revolutionary, not conservative)
2.Shared a revolutionary action theory, believed in the value of successful ideological innovation
3. shared doctrine of constant struggle
Not true for communism from a purely idealistic point of view.4. rigid elitism and leadership principle
This applies to all modern self-respecting ideologies. Like democracy. Or religious fundamentalism. Or environmentalism.5. shared the idea of the proletarian as the basis of political action
Even right-wing corporate-loving ideologies need to at least pander somewhat to the populace.
6-8 are true for all less-than-moderate dictatorships6.Single party dictatorship, aim to tear down class system
7. Creation of a party army; army is subordinate to the party
8. Emphasis on militarization, promotion of revolutionary war
Granted.9.Economic Policy phase based on partial pluralism early in regime
Again, true for any ideology.10. International projection of new ideological myths capable of eliciting an international response.
All in all what you have described are ideological dictatorships. We already know that fascism and communism are both ideological dictatorships - as if there isn't a government in the world that isn't ideological in some way.
So, that's two things in common between communism and fascism: ideological fervour and dictatorship. That doesn't mean that therefore they're the same thing.Poor silly humans. A temporarily stable pattern of matter and energy stumbles upon self-cognizance for a moment, and suddenly it thinks the whole universe was created for its benefit. -- mbelleroffComment
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According to Woosley, Clinton's CIA director, Iraq and Syria are today's examples of fascist states.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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According to Saddam Husein, Iraqi president, United States of America and Great Britain are today's examples of fascist states.
So what?Comment
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Does that mean the Cuba can't be socialist because it's agrarian and not indutrial?Originally posted by Ramo
Nah, the Latin American-style right wing authoritarian state (including Franco's Spain) is quite different from your fascist states (Germany, Italy, etc.). Fascist states typically favor industrial interests while the Latin American model is tied to large landowners and the Church.
I don't see such a major divide between the style of economic governance in (to take two examples provided thus far) Franco's Spain and Hitler's Germany.12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Ultima Ratio RegumComment
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Typical one-dimensional political thinking.Originally posted by nationalist
Here it is. Its not pretty, but I'm not too great with MS Paint.
Worse than that, it's fairly deliberately stilted....12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Ultima Ratio RegumComment
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Communism is being able to **** your own people and getting left wing historians to support you.
Facism is being able to **** your own people and getting right wing historians to support you.Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
Douglas Adams (Influential author)Comment
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"The old one-dimensional categories of 'right' and 'left' , established for the seating arrangement of the French National Assembly of 1789, are overly simplistic for today's complex political landscape.
For example, who are the 'conservatives' in today's Russia? Are they the unreconstructed Stalinists, or the reformers who have adopted the right-wing views of conservatives like Margaret Thatcher ? .."
Porque nada pueden bombas donde sobra corazón...Comment
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And one picture...Attached FilesPorque nada pueden bombas donde sobra corazón...Comment
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