Your congresspeople at work

[GePap]

Le Monde didn't post a front page cartoon showing the US blazing a trial to Baghdad in the shape of a dollar bill

A front page editorial cartoon is proof of rampant anti-Americanism? since when?or is it better to leave the inflamatory political cartoons in the back page? yeah, as long as the kiddies can;t see it...lord know Americans don't read enough to get to the editorial page of the newspaper.

Please.

[GePap]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
Spiffor: How is this hatemongering? It looks like (retarded) boycotting to me.

The people of the US are angry at France's continued intransigence. I don't recall Bush making any inflammatory remarks, and congressmen are often just simple country folk themselves (since they, unlike parliament members, represent small actual districts of constituents). They aren't fanning the flames, but expressing popular feelings.

Making cracks about the intelligence of national groups seems to me far more bigoted than anything our congressmen have said about France.

did you read the article?

this is a company that has been in Georgia since 1894, and was bought by a french concern in 1995: and now it suddenly becomes French? So if the French buy all the companies that make American flags, you will boycott them as anti-American too?

[Spiffor]

DD:
AFAIK, this was neither a call to kill Americans, nor a call to attack their economy, nor a call to join Saddam, nor a call to ridicule the American people.
Imagine a drawing of Chirac kissing Saddam with a nuclear plant in the background. Would such a drawing be antifrench or anti-Chirac ?

Big difference between criticizing a policy and calling to hate a whole population.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by GePap
A front page editorial cartoon is proof of rampant anti-Americanism? since when?or is it better to leave the inflamatory political cartoons in the back page?

Although I have seen cartoons critical of France, I would not characterize any in my experience as inflammatory. We save those for other Americans.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by GePap
did you read the article?

this is a company that has been in Georgia since 1894, and was bought by a french concern in 1995: and now it suddenly becomes French? So if the French buy all the companies that make American flags, you will boycott them as anti-American too?

Like I said, retarded boycotting. The man clearly doesn't know what he is doing, and is obviously a fool, but it's not hatemongering. Boycotting a name is still boycotting.

[Andrew1999]

I think a lot of this is because of the strange situation we find ourselves in, propaganda-wise. We're at war with a bunch of towel-wearing camel jockeys, but we've had it thoroughly pounded into our skulls that we can't give the towel-wearing camel jockeys a hard time about it like we usually would. So when the cheese-eating surrender monkeys give us an opening we come down on them instead.

Seriously, we can't demonize the enemy--part of the reason for this war is supposed to be saving the enemy. So all the Us vs. Them circuitry gets short-circuited and we just go for a convenient target.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
Spiffor: How is this hatemongering? It looks like (retarded) boycotting to me.

It directly aims French economic interests, and thus French employment (even though it'll misfire so much it'll hurt the Georgians instead). The aim is clearly to hurt the French people here.

The people of the US are angry at France's continued intransigence. I don't recall Bush making any inflammatory remarks

He let Rumsfeld do it. Please note that I'm not an apologist of my president, and he has a good chunk of responsibility in the diplomatic fiasco between France and the US.

and congressmen are often just simple country folk themselves (since they, unlike parliament members, represent small actual districts of constituents). They aren't fanning the flames, but expressing popular feelings.

Fair enough. This congresswoman is retarded and pushes forth irresponsible 'popular' demands, as per the general spirit instilled by FauxNews. I guess she deserves a congratulation.

Making cracks about the intelligence of national groups seems to me far more bigoted than anything our congressmen have said about France.

I have spoken with enough Americans here to know all Yanks aren't stupid, far from it. And despite our disagreements, I don't think you are stupid either.
I'm criticizing the level of paranoia that is reducing the US' intelligence, i.e the ability to think rationally within the US institutions. Your institutions are acting extremely stupidly these times. It would be very wise to think about it, rather than supporting your ruling elite.

[Kontiki]

Here's just a few other "French" things you're going to need to boycot, courtesy of them being owned by Vivendi (a large number of which were previously owned by Canadians, I might point out, until Seagram sold their assets to Vivendi):

All products from the Universal group of companies, which includes the world's largest music company (including labels like Island, A&M, Geffen, Def Jam, Interscope, MCA, Motown, Universal and many others), Universal Pictures (the movie company) and its associated theme parks, several TV networks (including, ironically, the USA network), several video game companies (including Sierra and Blizzard), MP3.com, etc.

Of course, the French company Pernod Ricard purchased 39% of Seagram spirits and wines, so you can't drink Havana Club, Wild Turkey, Jameson, Chivas Regal, and many others.

Better make sure you don't have Michelin tires on your car either.

Or, you could just be mature and accept that different countries can have different opinions.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
A front page editorial cartoon is proof of rampant anti-Americanism?

It was a counterexample to Spiffor's statement that media and the politicians put a clamp on ati-american attitudes and not try to inflame them. I don't believe that such attitudes are that widespread in France anyway. The same can be said for the US as well.

or is it better to leave the political cartoons in the back page?

That's where I'd put them. Along with the rest of the editorials.

[Spiffor]

Andrew :
This is a sensible post. However, I don't think the flames will abate by the end of the war. This has gone too far to be switched back to normal as soon as the war ends IMO.
Hatred is an efficient political tool when it is useful, but it becomes an uncontrollable monster once its usefulness is gone.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Spiffor
It directly aims French economic interests, and thus French employment (even though it'll misfire so much it'll hurt the Georgians instead). The aim is clearly to hurt the French people here.

Uh, yeah, that would pretty much be the definition of boycotting...

He let Rumsfeld do it. Please note that I'm not an apologist of my president, and he has a good chunk of responsibility in the diplomatic fiasco between France and the US.

Could you give me the quotes you found objectionable? I'd like to know.

Fair enough. This congresswoman is retarded and pushes forth irresponsible 'popular' demands, as per the general spirit instilled by FauxNews. I guess she deserves a congratulation.

Not really. The representative is regionally elected, so they have to represent not only regional interests but regional opinions. The rep probably knows that their constituents are not too fond of France at the moment, and hopes to capitalize on that with economic action. The fact that it doesn't hurt France is irrelevant for the purpose of garnering a few extra dumbass votes.

I have spoken with enough Americans here to know all Yanks aren't stupid, far from it. And despite our disagreements, I don't think you are stupid either.
I'm criticizing the level of paranoia that is reducing the US' intelligence, i.e the ability to think rationally within the US institutions. Your institutions are acting extremely stupidly these times. It would be very wise to think about it, rather than supporting your ruling elite.

I'm not sure I'd call anger at France "paranoia." I additionally do not see any wide-scale "stupid" actions resulting from these events. Boycotting some marble company is hardly a massive trend. Commonplace stupidity is not endemic to our nation.

[Spiffor]

DD:
There is a very widespread criticism of Gulf War 2 in France, because it is deemed to only serve the egoistical interests of the Bush admin and the US, despite the propaganda. The cartoon you are referring to is hardly surprising, and I'm sure it has been very well accepted within the French public.
I still don't call this "hatemongering". The true hatemongering that I have encountered in France until now were the calls for jihad, and a pathetic email to boycott American products (I know no one who followed it).

Nothing like the spouts of hatred or ridicule I could have seen on Rush Limbaugh's site, or FauxNews could have done.
Nothing like your lawmakers trying to hurt the French citizens by pushing for boycotts.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
I'm not sure I'd call anger at France "paranoia." I additionally do not see any wide-scale "stupid" actions resulting from these events. Boycotting some marble company is hardly a massive trend. Commonplace stupidity is not endemic to our nation.

That's good to know. I've thought people on your side of the pond became more obsessed by us than by their weewees. I sure hope it'll continue to be a marginal trend, and won't become mainstream.
Thanks for the explanations on how congresspeople are elected.

[Traianvs]

spiffor it's 5.30 in the morning, don't you ever sleep!!!!

[Spiffor]

I'm going to.
'night all