What about the Iraqi military losses???

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Ming, they are winning if they are keeping the coalition from Baghdad.

Are we truely going to declare Iraqi victory merely because coalition troops because they have failed to lock down the country in only EIGHT DAYS?

[CerberusIV]

I just heard a BBC radio report that the group that tried to flee Basra this morning largely consisted of young men, presumably getting out before being forced to fight.

Iraqi troop losses probably run into a few thousand by now - the key issue will be how long the more fanatical regular/irregular forces will stand up to constant attrition and how fast the rest of the population flee areas controlled by Saddam's supporters.

This isn't Vietnam and Saddam isn't Giap - the Baath party apparatus rules by fear, not popular loyalty and may start to run out of people it can force into combat.

[SlowwHand]

We're talking about the same Iraqi soldiers that pose as civilians?
Right. My heart pumps purple panther piss for them.

I'll put this here. Good a spot as any.


BY DENNIS MILLER

ALL THE RHETORIC ON WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD GO TO WAR AGAINST IRAQ HAS GOT MY INSANE LITTLE BRAIN SPINNING LIKE A ROULETTE WHEEL. I ENJOY READING OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES BUT I HAVE DETECTED A HINT OF CONFUSION FROM SOME OF YOU.

AS I WAS READING THE PAPER RECENTLY, I WAS REMINDED OF THE BEST ADVICE SOMEONE EVER GAVE ME. HE TOLD ME ABOUT THE KISS METHOD ("KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID!) SO, WITH THIS AS A THEME, I'D LIKE TO APPLY THIS THEORY FOR THOSE WHO DON'T QUITE GET IT. MY HOPE IS THAT WE CAN SIMPLIFY THINGS A BIT AND RECOGNIZE A FEW IMPORTANT FACTS.

HERE ARE 10 THINGS TO CONSIDER WHEN VOICING AN OPINION ON THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE:

1) OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY.

2) IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN THE UNITED NATIONS TO DO THE RIGHT THING KEEP THIS IN MIND, THEY HAVE LIBYA HEADING THE COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND IRAQ HEADING THE GLOBAL DISARMAMENT COMMITTEE. DO YOUR OWN MATH HERE.

3) IF YOU USE GOOGLE SEARCH AND TYPE IN "FRENCH MILITARY VICTORIES," YOUR REPLY WILL BE "DID YOU MEAN FRENCH MILITARY DEFEATS?"

4) IF YOUR ONLY ANTI-WAR SLOGAN IS "NO WAR FOR OIL," SUE YOUR SCHOOL DISTRICT FOR ALLOWING YOU TO SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND ROBBING YOU OF THE EDUCATION YOU DESERVE.

5) SADDAM AND BIN LADEN WILL NOT SEEK UNITED NATIONS APPROVAL BEFORE THEY TRY TO KILL US.

6) DESPITE COMMON BELIEF, MARTIN SHEEN IS NOT THE PRESIDENT. HE PLAYS ONE ON T.V.

7) EVEN IF YOU ARE ANTI-WAR, YOU ARE STILL AN "INFIDEL!" AND BIN LADEN
WANTS YOU DEAD, TOO

8) IF YOU BELIEVE IN A "VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY" BUT NOT IN THE
DANGER THAT HUSSEIN POSES, QUIT HANGING OUT WITH THE DELL COMPUTER DUDE

9) I don't agree, so edited. Too bad.

10) WHETHER YOU ARE FOR MILITARY ACTION OR AGAINST IT, OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN OVERSEAS ARE FIGHTING FOR US TO DEFEND OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT. WE ALL NEED TO SUPPORT THEM WITHOUT RESERVATION.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Ming, they are winning if they are keeping the coalition from Baghdad. The coalition didn't make much progress the last few days. Somebody severely underestimated number of troops needed, as 120,000 are being called from the US.

Actually, the progress we're making is excellent, just not the flash and dash unrealistic horse**** touted by Little Red Rummy-hood and the big bad Wolfowitz.

The 120,000 troops bit is either disinformation or sloppy reporting - many of those troops have been subject to deployment orders for weeks, or were already listed in the deployed forces. The most blatant example is 4 ID, which has had it's heavy equipment in ships waiting to enter Turkey since January. The "troops" moving is only after the heavy equipment is ready to offload, since we have more than enough airlift to spare them weeks about troopships.

As far as making progress the last few days, we have a major ground column of 101 ABD on the move in western Iraq, the 1 ID airlifting a brigade to put pressure on Mosul and Kirkuk (and to tie down an IRG division in the area).

We also have photos of major supply convoys moving past ad Diwaniyah, east of the Euphrates and astride the Shatt al Hillah waterway. That is giving us massive supply directly across from the Karbala - al Hillah line that is the key part of forward defenses of Baghdad. IRG Medina is sitting there taking a pounding from the air, and when we do push through there, we'll melt 'em in isolated groups in a few minutes of heavy contact, just like we did to Medina last time. We're pinning and killing those forward defenders in place, rather than pushing them back into Baghdad. If they try to break and run back, we'll have another highway of death. The forward IRG defenders, three divisions worth, have lost their chance to retreat into Baghdad.

Not true. There's at least one battle where the coalition claimed they have killed hundreds of Iraqi soldiers.

Yeah, when they attacked on foot against a moving mechanized column - there weren't any vehicle kills or anything similar to report.

Realistic military and military-related (fedayin, SRG, Baath party, technicians) casualties now are probably in the 5,000 KIA, 10-20,000 WIA level, due mostly to air bombardment.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
This isn't Vietnam and Saddam isn't Giap - the Baath party apparatus rules by fear, not popular loyalty and may start to run out of people it can force into combat.

In the last war, a large number, probably a large majority, of Iraqi EPW's wanted us to rearm them and provide them with heavy support to go after Hussein's regime.

The only problem with that here is the time and security issues to train them in our procedures, to be able to coordinate with them, but there's no shortage of people in Iraq who want this regime gone.

[SlowwHand]

"Actually, the progress we're making is excellent, just not the flash and dash unrealistic horse**** touted by Little Red Rummy-hood and the big bad Wolfowitz."

[Ming]

MtG... I couldn't have said it any better myself

[Pedrunn]

One thing is for sure neither US nor Iraq has given an idea of the Iraq losses. And sure there is a reason. My thoughts is that Iraq doesnt want to show his men dying not to dicourage the armies and the US as usual wants to be the good guy since it is afraid of a major protest of the International communit that may inflame with pic and numbers of dead Iraq soldiers. After all they must have this number sround the heads of the penthagon. They just dont want to make it public!

As for the winning side. US of course, doesnt matter how long it takes to reach Bagda as long as the troops dont sterp away the us will be winning.

[GePap]

I think 10,000 would be a high end: we are bombing a lot, but a lot of those tagets were obvious ones, and surely the Iraqis got out of them a while ago. Estimates of how mnay Iraqis we killed in the First Gulf war, which were as high as 100,000, went as low as 3000. I do find it starneg that that US does not make more estimates. I am sure they have had the chance to count a fair number of bodies. If they don't tell they might think the number too high, and thus a sign of some resitance.

[Pedrunn]

Away from the topic but

Originally posted by SlowwHand
1) OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ... HUSSEIN IS THE BAD GUY.

Can anyone be more UScentric!?! For more than 20 years (1964-85) my country was controlled by military dictatorship that overuled all the constitution, stated a censorship, tortured opposers (killing may of them), spent a huge budget in its own porpuse.
But what if the US invaded our country, deposed the General in charge of the presidency and replaced the military dictatorship with a US-friendly/like government?
Try to convince me that the USwere going to be the good guys and had the right to do that! And i will just call you a @%$#!!!

Now try the same situation in case of the US being a dictatorship. Would you want your country to be invaded, bombed and have its gov replaced with the invaders control.

Sorry buddy but maniqueism is just stupid. There is no good and evil.It all depends on who is watching.

[Pedrunn]

this was rplies to others slowwhands quotes but i decided that i was way too much off-topic of this thread.