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  • #46
    I don't remember their family name, to be honest. They seem to've bought a more roomy appartment, a couple of blocks up.
    urgh.NSFW

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    • #47
      GWB used the 1441 violations to convince the UN to do its job. The UN violations are reason for the UN to attack, not the US, so GWB had to come up with something else to justify going in without the UN.

      The sad thing is that it is now fair game to even ask the question who the US going to attack next. We have become the bully of the world, ready, more than willing, and soon we shall see how able to take on countries around the world.

      Even sadder is the UN. France, Germany and Russia among others are like parents threatening their child with some outlandish punishment that they have no intention of backing up. The result is a spoiled child who will no longer listen. 1441 said immediate disarmament and severe consequences for failure. If they didn't mean it, they shouldn't have voted for it.

      The failure to back up their own resolution is pathetic and France is worst of all, vowing to veto if they lost the vote. France's shameful cowardice and greed in the face of the UN's most difficult time should be enough to throw them off the security council. How secure do you feel knowing you have to rely on France to protect you? No wonder GWB feels threatened. France was sticking up for Saddam 6 months after GW1 and are practically guilty of aiding and abetting terrorism. Who knows, maybe we really will attack them. I know a lot of Americans would like to see it.
      Last edited by Frogman; March 25, 2003, 10:58.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Frogman
        Who knows, maybe we really will attack them [France]. I know a lot of Americans would like to see it.
        I know a lot of Americans wouldn't want to see their country nuked. Please drop the stupidity : the US cannot afford to attack a nuclear power just because it has annoyed them.
        "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
        "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
        "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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        • #49
          No two sensible countries w/nukes will go to war.
          urgh.NSFW

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Frogman
            The failure to back up their own resolution is pathetic and France is worst of all, vowing to veto if they lost the vote.
            Backing up? Backing up what? Consider that the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Negroponte said to the Security Council:

            There is not 'automaticity,' and this is a two-stage process, and in that regard we met the principal concerns that have been expressed for the resolution. Whatever violation there is, or is judged to exist, will be dealt with in the council, and the council will have an opportunity to consider the matter before any other action is taken."
            Also consider what Colin Powell said:

            [Saddam Hussein] hasn't complied in the past, and that's why we put it in this resolution that this is a last chance, because if he doesn't comply this time, that lack of compliance goes right to the Security Council, who are to convene immediately to consider what should be done.
            Seeing that there is no evidence of non-compliance, according to the inspectors, what's there to back up?
            (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
            (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
            (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Urban Ranger
              Seeing that there is no evidence of non-compliance, according to the inspectors, what's there to back up?
              I'm more interested in the lack of evidence for full compliance.
              I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
              For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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              • #52
                I wonder what is the point in discussing 1441 anymore. The Chickenhawks have shown they wanted to go to war no matter what, and tried to have the UN backing it. They used the disarmament excuse to get this backing, and they were cought in their little game, with some slow progress being made on the disarmament issue.

                The official excuse to go to war was the regime change. 1441 is completely irrelevant in the declaration of war, except for PR purposes.
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                • #53
                  you're confusing excuse with reason. Excuse is the false one. (Unless you believe that the aim of US troops is something else besides regime change )
                  urgh.NSFW

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by DinoDoc
                    I'm more interested in the lack of evidence for full compliance.
                    Why? The UN roadshow was put on while the troop
                    build up was proceeding. GWB would have liked to get a
                    UN warrant, but the UN yea or nay was'nt going to
                    change the scheduled attack date.

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                    • #55
                      Right Az
                      The aim is to overthrow the regime, for many self-interested reasons.
                      Disarmament was an excuse though, to get support from the American public opinion, and support from the international community. 1441 still has no relevance in this war.
                      "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                      "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                      "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Azazel
                        you're confusing excuse with reason. Excuse is the false one. (Unless you believe that the aim of US troops is something else besides regime change )
                        As 1441 isn´t about Regime Change but about Iraq destroying its WMDs (from whose none have been discovered so far) referring to 1441 is no reason but an excuse to go to war in order to change the regime
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                        Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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                        • #57
                          with some slow progress being made on the disarmament issue.

                          When had Iraq accounted for the fate of the 1.5 tons of VX nerve agent the Unscom was unable to account for in 1999, as an example?
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Ozz
                            Why? The UN roadshow was put on while the troop
                            build up was proceeding.
                            It was the troops that got even the barely minimal compliance Iraq provided. I think we passed the point of Iraq being impressed by the words material breach and serious consequences alone long ago given how often they have appeared in UNSC resolutions relating to Iraq.
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by DinoDoc
                              with some slow progress being made on the disarmament issue.

                              When had Iraq accounted for the fate of the 1.5 tons of VX nerve agent the Unscom was unable to account for in 1999, as an example?
                              I never said Iraq fully complied. However, it would be plain wrong to pretend the inspectors made no progress, or to pretend the Iraqis weren't complying at all (sure, they were caught red-handed and had a massive military pressure, sure they did not cooperate willingly).
                              The destruction of the Al-Samoud 2 is what I call slow progress.

                              Besides, 1441 calls for the UNSC to decide whether Iraq has been sufficiently cooperating or not. This decision is taken, guess what Frogman, with a second resolution. No action could be taken within the frame of 1441 without a second resolution.
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                              • #60
                                A second resolution which was planned but then abandoned by the US as it became clear that it wouldn´t even get a simple majority of the votes
                                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                                Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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