The Star Wars vs Star Trek Thread; because it's been awhile.

[Drake Tungsten]

Who needs mentats when you have computers that are not melange-relient?

Just remembered that mentats aren't melange-reliant, so another one of your points bites the dust!

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Frankychan
Star Wars has 'The Force'.

All the Jedi/Sith have to do is take over the minds of their opponents or choke 'em to death to win.

That's true. But the Federation Wooden Admirals(TM), despite not having 'The Force' would never allow Palpatine to take the political control, and the Enterprise officials (any of them) would know about the conspiration much more sooner than it would be a real danger.

Not counting Section 31...

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by nationalist

The Ferengi are supposedly Europeans

Never thought about that, but it makes sense.

I would picture the Ferengi as the Old Europe. Always complaining about the Federation but trying to take as much profit from them as possible.

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by Kramerman
I remember when i had a rediculus arguement with a friend (treky, he is) over who would win, an Imp Star Destroyer or the USS Enterprise. I was sure he'd answer the Star Destoryer, i mean, how could it lose? But he didint! and for the longest time i had the nerdiest arguement in my life over what would win, an SD or the Enterprise (galactic-class, i believe it is, or somethn like that).

Why is it a ridiculous argument? It's clear you don't know Federation Captains enough!

If Riker alone was able to defeat a Borg cube, an Star Destroyer should be much more easier. Just give Data enough time to find one of its multiple weakness.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr. A. Cula
I came here to find the answer to the old qurestion about who would win a confrontation between an Enterprise security team, who get killed on sight, and a squad of SW stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of an elephant in a corridor, or something like that.
Instead, I find people arguing about spaceships.

That's easy--the stormtroopers would win, hands down. Why? Because they only have trouble hitting major characters, and only when convenient for the plot. Otherwise, they're quite good shots. It was actually quite impressive for the trooper to hit Leia like he did in RoTJ from an off-the-hip shot. Aim isn't as easy as some people seem to think.

[TheStinger]

As the millenium falcon was too small to have a clocking device there is an implication that if it had one they wouldn't have been able to track it I would suggest infilltrating the imperial fleet with hundreds of Klingon and Romulan cruisers then de cloacking and taking them by surprise.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by TheStinger
As the millenium falcon was too small to have a clocking device there is an implication that if it had one they wouldn't have been able to track it I would suggest infilltrating the imperial fleet with hundreds of Klingon and Romulan cruisers then de cloacking and taking them by surprise.

This isn't precisely true...

In the Zahn trilogy, the Empire had the technology to detect cloaked ships. It was very expensive so relatively rare, but there's little doubt they would utilize it once they realized there were cloaked ships in Alpha Quadrant.

Keep in mind that the Federation can't detect cloaked ships without ridiculous work-arounds, and Needa's line from ESB implies the Empire would have access to such cloaking devices for their larger vessels. So the cloaking advantage would actually go to the Empire.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Static Universe
None of them stand a chance against the Kzinti.

Hand to hand...surely one of the best.

Overall, The Death Star sure would be hard to stop. Q beats all though.

[Boris Godunov]

The notion that Q would come to the defense of the Federation is laughable. He didn't do squat in the Dominion Wars, now did he? Or against the Borg?

Q and his race don't care diddly about the fate of the Alpha Quadrant. As far as they'd be concerned, the Empire's takeover would be an insignificant regime change, nothing more.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The notion that Q would come to the defense of the Federation is laughable. He didn't do squat in the Dominion Wars, now did he?

Excellent point. Somehow I believe that Q would be there for Picard though.

[Dauphin]

He didn't need to. The Dominion were defeated.

There was an episode where Q claimed to have saved the Federation by making them aware of the Borg in advance of their arrival.

[Starchild]

BC raises an interesting point. Where the Borg coming to the Alpha Quadrant anyway, so Q's actions alerted the Federation to a significant threat or did Q's actions alert the Borg to a problem they decided to take out sooner rather than later?

, then Vader can go take out the Queen and end the problem for good.

you think so three dimesionally about it...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lonestar
There are 12 heavy turbolasers and roughly 120 light turbolasers on an ISD1 (ref. SWICS). The heavy turbolasers are roughly 125 times bigger than the light turbolasers (which were seen vaporizing asteroids in TESB). If firepower is proportional to size (an unsubstantiated but not unreasonable postulate) then the sustainable power outputs of the heavy and light guns work out to 47 million TW and 375,000 TW respectively. Refire rates seem to be roughly 1 shot per 2 seconds, so the energy level of each individual blast would have to be 94 million TJ (22 gigatons of TNT) for heavy turbolasers and 750,000 TJ ( 179 megatons) for light turbolasers.

Now, let's look at some numbers for Federation phasers (and quantum Torps).

Phasers appear to induce some kind of chain reaction in matter. Against shields, they seem to be tactically equivalent to lasers in the range of 30,000 TW (7 megatons per second). Against dense armour, their effectiveness is much lower, in the 1-10TW range (1 kiloton per second). A typical starship has only a handful of phaser arrays

Their torpedoes are their heaviest weapons, with an upper limit of 64 megatons for photon torpedoes and roughly twice that for quantum torpedoes. In fact, some significant battles have been fought exclusively with torpedoes. They are capable of superluminal speeds when launched from a warp-driven starship, thus making them useful for long-range first-strike actions and surprise attacks. They have good acceleration and guidance systems, but limited maneuverability


The fact is, there are many, many incidents when Federation ships were less than a few kilometers away while missing.

Let's look at shields;

The TESB novelization described a "steady rain" of asteroids, and Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader said that "turbolaser gunners blasted the largest rocks; those they missed impacted against the bow shields like multi-megaton compression bombs." We can see from the film that the ships were taking impacts at the rate of at least 1 asteroid per second if not more, and we know from the above quote that the asteroids were striking with several megatons of energy each. Some Federation cultists dispute this figure by stating that we saw some slow-moving asteroids in the films, but this is a false dilemma fallacy: the existence of slow-moving asteroids does not prove that all of the asteroids (<99.99% of which would have impacted >off-screen) would have been slow-moving, particularly since typical asteroid speeds in the Earth's solar system have been observed to be much higher than this. Furthermore, the bombardment must have continued for at least 1 or 2 days because Vader had time to contact bounty hunters, who travelled from their various homebases to the Outer Rim while the fleet stayed in the field. Therefore, each ISD might have absorbed as much as 3E20 joules of kinetic energy while in the asteroid field.

So, SW shields can probaly shrug off Federation weapons. Can Federation shields make the claim about SW weapons? No. .

Federation shield technology allows them to withstand multiple direct hits with high-yield nuclear weapons and prolonged exposure to stellar bombardment. If they can stay out of the firing range of our heavy dorsal turbolaser batteries (which unleash millions of TJ per shot), we will need to hit their vessels with more than 100 shots from our point-defense cannons to bring down their shields. With more than 100 turbolaser emplacements capable of firing once every two seconds, we should be able to accomplish this in a few seconds. If they do not find a way to improve their shield survivability against plasma weapons, it will be even easier; a single shot from a point-defense turbolaser battery will be sufficient to bring their shields down.

Our tacticians feel that the best method of attack will be to use our TIE fighters primarily to launch large numbers of missiles at the Federation ships from many angles as a diversion, while our capital ships attempt to target their vessels with the heavy dorsal cannons. This may prove to be difficult against the smaller, more highly maneuverable vessels like the "Defiant". Fortunately, their fleet is heavily biased toward large vessels rather than the small and highly maneuverable Defiant-class vessels.




IMO, the "First ONes" are wussies, and have low survivability rates.


(all SW vs. ST info shamelessly stolen from stardestroyer.net, mike wong. except no substitutes)

So these numbers are pulled out from somebody's rectum. Bah.

Faulty assumptions all around.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Big Crunch
He didn't need to. The Dominion were defeated.

There was an episode where Q claimed to have saved the Federation by making them aware of the Borg in advance of their arrival.

The Dominion was defeated, barely. But Q and his kind didn't raise a finger, and there is no reason to assume they would have. So why would a race of omnipotent beings care if the Empire took over the Alpha Quadrant?

Q's boast was just that--a boast to try and prove the Feds should be grateful to him. There's no reason to suspect he introduced them to the Borg out of benevolent reasons. After all--that made the Borg aware of them, too.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Where did you find these ridiculous numbers?

Considering he cited the source at the end of the post, I wonder about your reading abilities...