I am protesting the protesters

[Chemical Ollie]

The protesters in my home town were waving Sovjet and anarchist flags. Obviosly they don't want any decent people to join the rally. I rather make civilised protests here on the Civilization site.

[Kropotkin]

The problem with having any standpoint whatsoever is that you're sure to have the same opinions as a number of morons. Just because I'm sceptical over the war I have to answer for stupid arguments from people both here at ot and in general. Having the opposite opinion wouldn't really mean an improvement either.

I usually find myself to have this problem quite often, most so when it comes to feminism but this war is quite a good example also.

[SlowwHand]

There were reports that a group of protestors were considering storming Vandenberg AFB in California.

Vandenberg is a missle base, and has controls dealing with many of the "smart bomb" guidance systems.

Vandenberg Base Command advised that would be a poor idea, as the Base would not be able to distinguish properly between Protestors and Terrorists.
Good point.

He added that peopel of any kind that "stormed" the gates, would be repelled.
I have no doubt.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Vandenberg Base Command advised that would be a poor idea, as the Base would not be able to distinguish properly between Protestors and Terrorists.
Good point.

why do not they use some smart missiles that can already allegedly distinguish between civilians and military personnel?

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre The protesters in my home town were waving Sovjet and anarchist flags. Obviosly they don't want any decent people to join the rally.

If they were'nt protesting the war, it would be the price
of eggs.

Protesting is their hobby, too bad they suck at it.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by LaRusso


why do not they use some smart missiles that can already allegedly distinguish between civilians and military personnel?

Range becomes a factor.
When designed, optimum maximum distance was a factor.
Doubtful the consideration was the need to strike the gate.

Good thing you don't run the circus.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Verto
Careful, by voicing your own opinions, you may be denying freedom of speech to the Dixie Chicks.

All right, so I used a bad example to illustrate an issue that concerns me. I apologize already! Geez!

[Robert]

Thus, there are people who want to abort the war, so Iraq hasn't been freed AGAIN!?

I thought we had different opinions on how to help the Iraqi people, but shared our opinion on how they should get rid of their dictator.

I thought we said:
- first diplomacy but after 12 years concider it failed

wihle you said:
- no, diplomacy can never fail! Keep trying!

I thought we said:
- invading Iraqi will result in the same number of death civilians as doing nothing, but keeping the same treat that he might use his weapons one day

while you guys said:
- No! Never do something that results in death civilians!

But now the choise of diplomacy has failed. (it HAS failed, we can't continue it like nothing happened) there's one option left over to reach our common goal (get rid of Sadam, free the people)

If you want to stop the war, this goal won't be reached.
The people will get back under the dictator who'll surpress them MORE than ever! (because he knows nothing will happen anyway)

Even IF this is the mistake of 'us',
even then it's still the best option to continue and free Iraque!

But if I'm wrong, what if someone of the 'stop the war' people explains here how something like stopping the war could benefit the iraqi people, by getting back under their dictator.

[Agathon]

Don't believe what you see on the television.

I went to the Toronto protest yesterday which was reported by the local TV station as though the protestors were rioting and pushing people around. None of this happened, it was a complete fiction - I know, I was there - apart from 3 people who responded with verbal abuse, the response of passers by was overwhelmingly postive. The only event of the day was a few protestors got involved with some stupid white guy who came along to abuse them (the police took him away for his own safety). Add to that the arrest of a notorious local activist (who always gets arrested - so nothing new there) and you have a grand total of five arrests - probably less than last year's Christmas parade. Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

As for violence in all the other protests I have seen it has been the protestors being attacked by passers by, not the other way around. I saw a clip from London in which a stupid white guy got out of his car and started kicking protestors, which was reported as if the protestors were being violent.

Don't believe the hype.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Master Zen


While I have no problem with these people protesting injustice (which they are surely right in doing) doesn't that invade my own liberty as a commuter? Must I, and millions more suffer just because these people are pissed off at something?

Ah diddums. Your liberty as a commuter is compromised. Of course that is SOOOO important compared to the deaths of innocent people.

Suck it up.

[Robert]

Ah diddums. Your liberty as a commuter is compromised. Of course that is SOOOO important compared to the deaths of innocent people.

Suck it up.

I remember discussions like this during the afganisthan war last year.
The afghan people were happy!

And don't forget that much people are murdered by the Iraqi regime!

[Spiffor]

I have begun protesting since the beginning of the war, not before. Yesterday was my first anti-Iraq war protest. I'm also encouraging everybody I know to go to tomorrow's worldwide protest (sorry, couldn't find a link for the specifics of each city).

My reasons for this are not to stop the war, because it won't happen anyways. It is to show my utter disagreement with the Bushies' way, of fostering war whatever happens, and the very fact that I do not support the war any more now than before the war started. Actually, I support the war even less now that I am witnessing bombings and the action of slaughter.
Of course you'll ask : "who cares about you disagreeing ?", and the straight answer is nobody. OTOH, if we are as many or more than a month ago, some people might get interested. Pro-war pundits cannot dismiss a huge worlwide protest with the "our support is increasing if you don't count these leftist lunatics" phrase like they do for local protests. I expect some intelligent pro-war people actually wondering : "why is the world opposed to this war so much ?", I sure hope they'll take their reflections into account.
It is also intended to support those struggling against the pro-war bigotry within the US, to show them the world is with them. Hopefully, this'll give them more energy to undermine Bush and Blair, and to help ousting them next time.

Lastly, it has to do with the future. Gulf War II is the first time we have seen such a worldwide opposition, in an organized way. Oppositions to WTO summits and such were sure international, but the location of the protests was restricted. Going to the protest tomorrow is a way of saying : "We haven't given up now that you gave us the finger. We will harass you even more next time".

BTW, I'm quite involved in politics, and I don't go to protests for the party. Yesterday, I had a sad face all along, and didn't participate to any chanting. Most notably because of some thread on this forum...

[SlowwHand]

So you were foolish early, Spiffor ?

[Spiffor]

No, I was anti-war all along. I just didn't see the use of going to protests (where it freezed btw) while I was living in countries opposing it, France and Germany. That partly explains why there have been so many more protestors in Rome than in Paris before the war btw.
OTOH, now that the war has started, I see the use of showing the world opinion not giving up. I even went to distribute tracts to my old highschool today, to warn them there is a demo tomorrow 14:30 at République (if any other Parisian is reading this ). Most seemed interetsed, some said it was useless, and one was staunchly pro-war.

Before, it was time to protest in the US, UK, Italy, Spain and Australia. Now it is time to protest in the whole world.

[Adam Smith]

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but morally treasonable to the American public."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1918


Question for all you baseball fans out there:

Are Shock and Awe related to Aura and Mistique?