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Thank the (US) Founding Fathers for an independent judiciary!

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  • Thank the (US) Founding Fathers for an independent judiciary!

    It's about time: US Constitution 1, Bush-Ashcroft 0

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- A federal judge Tuesday ordered the government to allow lawyers to meet with alleged "enemy combatant" Jose Padilla, an American citizen accused of being an al Qaeda operative who plotted to detonate a radioactive "dirty bomb" inside the United States.

    The decision is a legal setback for the Bush administration, which sought to block Padilla from meeting his defense lawyers under any circumstances, saying national security is more important than a detainee's right to counsel.

    U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey rejected the government's argument in a 35-page decision, ordering the government to permit Padilla's New York-based attorneys to visit the prisoner, who has been held incommunicado in a South Carolina Navy brig since June.

    ------------------------------

    "Absent agreement, the court will impose conditions," Mukasey wrote. "Lest any confusion remain, this is not a suggestion or a request that Padilla be permitted to consult with counsel, and it is certainly not an invitation to conduct further 'dialogue' about whether he is permitted to do so."
    OUCH!!! - That's judgespeak for "shut the **** up and move on."

    Lest anyone think I have a shred of sympathy or interest in Padilla himself, I think the SOB should be tried, and given the maximum sentence applicable if convicted. At least a couple of the chargeable offenses carry the death penalty, which is fine by me.

    It's not the fate of one individual (who if guilty, deserves to fry) that is a concern. The Bush-Ashcroft position is the biggest, most direct assault on the Constitution in US history. The right to legal counsel is an absolute, and Padilla was arrested by law enforcement officials in the US, not captured in combat operations. The idea that one appointed law enforcement official could declare that a criminal suspect is totally beyond the reach of the Constitution and judicial system is absolutely repulsive to the system of government our founders set up.

    Great job by Judge Mukasey. Hopefully a more enlightened future administration will consider him for a higher court.

    Last edited by MichaeltheGreat; March 11, 2003, 17:56.
    When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

  • #2
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      Held since June last year without being able to speak to a lawyer ( /me does quick count... erm... ), 9 mths - bloody hell.

      Obviously if he's guilty then he should be punished but to f*ck around with due process, then someone in authority is taking the piss.

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      • #4
        "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
        You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

        "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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        • #5


          See, I told you guys the courts would be having a go at Ashcroftian nonsense.
          "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

          "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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          • #6
            /me is not impressed at courts dealing correctly with the easy stuff and continues to wait for a test of the Patriot Act.
            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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            • #7
              Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
              GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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              • #8
                Here we go again:
                The biggest problem the US (and the free world) faces now is the Bush administration.

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                • #9
                  Let him meet with lawyers.
                  He's toast, and anything to speed the process.
                  Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                  "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                  He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carnide_
                    Here we go again:
                    The biggest problem the US (and the free world) faces now is the Bush administration.
                    Take your trolling elsewhere. Or perhaps your reading comprehension is sub-optimal?
                    When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                    • #11
                      It is about time that the courts started to fulfill their function on this issue. I have to agree with DinoDoc however. The Patriot act has got to go. Will the judiciary please step up here!?!
                      "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


                        Take your trolling elsewhere. Or perhaps your reading comprehension is sub-optimal?
                        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                        • #13
                          Some provisions of Patriot will pass muster, particularly with this SCOTUS, which is very pro-government on Fourth Amendment issues.

                          So far, there's a problem with the Cases or Controversies Clause, which prevents the judiciary from either acting in anticipation of an actual case, or addressing the entirety of the Patriot act - it will have to be addressed one provision at a time, if and as claims are raised about those specific provisions.

                          As long as the powers given the Executive branch under Patriot are primarily used for intelligence gathering, and not directly for criminal prosecutions, it's going to be rather difficult for anyone to raise issues of law that can be brought before the judiciary.
                          When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                          • #14
                            Let me play devils advocate here. Under what conditions is it appropriate to hold a US citizen without counsel?
                            We need seperate human-only games for MP/PBEM that dont include the over-simplifications required to have a good AI
                            If any man be thirsty, let him come unto me and drink. Vampire 7:37
                            Just one old soldiers opinion. E Tenebris Lux. Pax quaeritur bello.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SpencerH
                              Let me play devils advocate here. Under what conditions is it appropriate to hold a US citizen without counsel?
                              None. It may be appropriate in some circumstances for a court to appoint an observer to ensure no matters of national security is passed on. The right to representation is absolute.
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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