Bus exploded in Haifa

[Guardian]

Originally posted by CyberGnu

I'm of course assuming you are not referring to events a 100 years ago, since that would be completely irrelevant.

OK, so the Native Americans are not an oppressed people and they're not entitled to getting their land back.

Then, once again, what is so special about the Palestinians ?

[Sirotnikov]

Only pressuring Israel to stop the occupation can lead to peace.

Israel made steps towards stopping the occupation during 1993-2000.

This did not lead to peace. The Palestinians only incrased terror since 1993 until today.

This time, the Palestinians must make steps towards decreasing terror.

Maybe that'll bring peace.

[Sirotnikov]

gnu, you know very well that your views are abhored by almost all visitors of this site, be they pro-pal or pro-israeli.

you seek an absolute justice in a process you do not fully understand and know only one narrative of.

[CyberGnu]

How can I prove a nazi that he's a nazi? It's a lost cause.

Yeah, pretty much what I expected. Name calling is fine, as long as you don't have to support your claims.

Israeli, American and European media who have bothered to talk to simple people, instead of relying on the words of israeli or palestinian mediators.

Source, please

you talk about palestinian death tolls without any reference to the incidents sorrounding their death, or thier possible alliance with combatants (ie terrorists)

Source, please. Or quotation, if you will.

this is bull****.

those things are uncomparable.

Yes, but not in the way you imply.

this assumes that one side is completely and absolutely right and the other is completely and absolutely wrong. And you expect both to behave absolutely objectively.

The world doesn't work that way.

No, it assumes that Israel is occupying palestine. Not much of an assumption, really, more of an observation.

I'm sure anyone reading this thread can remember accusations of stealing land.

Be specific

I use numerous sources: Israeli, Arab, American, Brittish, German.

Be specific

You have so far quoted one or two articles by the guardian or washington post.

That's odd, I haven't quoted ANYTHING in this thread. You could, of course, require me to quote my source on Kashmir, but that is, as far as I know, the only quotable post.

Every pro-israeli article, be it israeli, arab, german or anything else, you claim to be false and utter lies, since you personally can't verify the claims. then you decide it's probably a jewish owned media source and therefore vehemently zionistic.

sounds familiar?

Not even remotely. I doesn;t matter how many times you are told, you still never understand this simple principle, but the whole idea of an unbiased view is that one accepts the articles from an unbiased source, even if they present facts that puts the opposing side in a good light.

It doesn't in any way require, or even encourage, one to accept information from biased media. The only possible use one could have for such information would be to use it as a stepping stone to find information from reliable sources.

[MRT144]

siro, i think terrorsim would have increased with or without occupation.

[CyberGnu]

Not true.

The UN thinks that opression of the armenians is relevant.

The opression of african states by Belgium in the 19th century, is relevant in my eyes.

The conflict between israeli jews and arabs began in the 19th century.

?

you might want to read Mad Monks original post.

[CyberGnu]

OK, so the Native Americans are not an oppressed people and they're not entitled to getting their land back.

Then, once again, what is so special about the Palestinians ?

You just said it... The Native Americans are NOT OPPRESSED. The US goverment is doing the best they can to restitute Native Americans. This is not the case in Israel, is it?

[Guardian]

Originally posted by CyberGnu

No, it assumes that Israel is occupying palestine. Not much of an assumption, really, more of an observation.

Well, supposedly, that is irrelevant.

(The actual occupation happened many years ago...)

[CyberGnu]

Israel made steps towards stopping the occupation during 1993-2000.

This did not lead to peace. The Palestinians only incrased terror since 1993 until today.

This time, the Palestinians must make steps towards decreasing terror.

Maybe that'll bring peace.

Not much of an effort - the second intifada started just because Israel wasn't stopping the occupation.

No, the only way to peace os to force Israel to ACTUALLY STOP the ccupation, not just take a few cosmetic steps.

It is not the terrorists who are the key to stopping terrorism. It the popular support of the terrorists, and that can only be reduced or eliminated by stopping the occupation.

[CyberGnu]

gnu, you know very well that your views are abhored by almost all visitors of this site, be they pro-pal or pro-israeli.

you seek an absolute justice in a process you do not fully understand and know only one narrative of.

Well, that is your view. As for "absolute justice", I've told you roughly a hundred times: you have to decide whether to discuss ideological or pragmatical goals.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


You just said it... The Native Americans are NOT OPPRESSED. The US goverment is doing the best they can to restitute Native Americans. This is not the case in Israel, is it?

Perhaps it would have been if people hadn't been running around blowing up buses?

[CyberGnu]

Well, supposedly, that is irrelevant.

(The actual occupation happened many years ago...)

Yet, they are still oppressed.

I don't quite follow your intention here. Are you implying that since an occupation is old, it is OK? Or are you trying to establish a case for my opinions being inconsistent, when I think that a country who has publically apologized for its bloody past, and who are doing their very best to make up for past crimes shouldn't be compared to a country who are continually oppressing a subjugated people?

[Guardian]

Originally posted by CyberGnu

It is not the terrorists who are the key to stopping terrorism. It the popular support of the terrorists, and that can only be reduced or eliminated by stopping the occupation.

If it worked as far as to ending the occupation, then what makes you think they would stop at that when many of these groups have clearly stated intent to destroy Israel?

[MRT144]

let god sort this out, and get america out.

[The Mad Monk]

Gnu, I picked those topics because they've been forum topics over the past few months. Maybe if you'd poke your head out of your bunker every now and then, you'd know that.