Has Bush Gone Mad?

[Joseph]

David; Do you really want another 9-11 before we fight?
I do not understand why one american would like to have other american died before we react.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Most of the rest of the people on the planet seem to care about it, that's who.

I think your a wee bit off track there chegitz guevara , if indeed the fact that MOST of the rest of the World did care, then why would we be having so many humanitarian relief missions or Military Interventions Worldwide?

If indeed the rest of the World did care for the UN then why dont more people get involved in assisting and funding the Police Actions of the World?

It seems mighty darned convenient when the so-called leaders of the World need the U S Punch of Power to resolve an issue, its ok, but because the U S Decides enough is enough and deciseds to rectify a bad situation, these so called leaders and voters so no no no..or wait wait wait...

I say take him out, help stop the terrorist network from funding and having a place to hide and seek.


I am not calling you out or starting a flamewar, just merely stating the pure facts, the "Most of The World" cant make its mind up.

The U S gave plenty of time, patiently waiting 12 years......

The countdown started a year and a half ago.....




Grandpa Troll9-11-01


Peace

Grandpa Troll

[Berzerker]

Hersh -

I know this is like talking to a wall, but well...

You want to get nasty, then FU a$$hole.

[SuperSneak]

Now, now, let's all settle down here.
Maybe we should talk about something else? Who's watching "American Idol"?

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Hersh -

You want to get nasty, then FU a$$hole.

Nasty?

[Berzerker]

Yes, nasty, had you mouthed off to my face I'd kick your teeth in, you snide little pr!ck.

David - I changed my mind, I believe far too many US soldiers are going to be subjected to bio/chem weapons to justify the war.

[HershOstropoler]

You're one happy little drama queen...

[Berzerker]

I'm in Topeka if you want a live performance.

[MRT144]

berzerker, you really are like talking to a brick wall though sometimes, not all but some. i highlighted this in a previous thread where you werent making rebuttles to any arguements, rather just quoting and making self serving assertions.

this is the first time ive seen you give up and talk of physical force though. im amazed

[Berzerker]

MRT, you lied in that thread and admitted you were trolling. You never supported your BS there and here you are again with more BS you won't support. I've had you on ignore ever since, so do me a favor and don't address me anymore.

[MRT144]

but i like you and the way you think. you along with Imran are one of the few people that i respect even though a lot of your opinions run completely contrary to me.

[SuperSneak]

Isn't that Simon just a pill? I can't believe the way he talks to people.
It's disgraceful.

Hey, how about a group hug?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I Simon

[David Floyd]

Berz, I know you already changed your mind, but I owe a response anyway:

David - Is coercion to fund a military allowable? Is that a user fee based on the reality that the military benefits us all?

Coercion to fund the US military in this day and age is certainly not allowable. If the US followed a non-interventionist, non-aggressive foreign policy - which is free - a military would not even be needed.

I'd prefer seeing if the miltary can be funded voluntarily, but I wouldn't complain if the funding was coerced because I view that tax as a user fee.

But surely you see the difference between a heavily offensive force and a totally defensive force, no?

But the military benefits us all "equally", so a general tax to support the military is IMO allowable.

How does an invasion of Iraq benefit me? Actually, it hurts me insofar as it drives up oil prices, and increases the risk of terrorism against the US.

So the question becomes whether or not action in Iraq is valid. The military is voluntary, so that's not a problem.

Agreed, yet at the same time, the fact of a voluntary military doesn't make any action the military takes moral. Starting a war with an all-volunteer force is just as bad as starting one with a conscript force.

Will action benefit us? I believe it will by eliminating a potential, if not actual, base for terrorists.

First of all, the US is both a potential and an actual base for terrorists, as are many countries in Europe. Second of all, even if I agreed with your terrorist argument, the costs, both economic and political, certainly outweigh the potential gains.

And by sending a message to other countries that allowing terrorists to operate within, and with the blessings of those countries, comes at a heavy price, we will reduce the operating abilities of terrorists.

Except we will likely increase the number of terrorists, if not immediately against the US, than certainly against countries such as Israel and states that support the US.

But we are stuck with what the Democans have created, so what is the best option given this reality? I still believe that if we just left the region, lifted the sanctions on Iraq, and withdrew from entangling alliances (Israel), the attacks would cease. So ideally this is what I would want, but the Democans won't do what I think is best for Americans. The next best option is war, just getting it over with, and that is one of two feasible options the Congress is supporting.

So we have an obligation to choose the lesser of two evils, just because Congress says those are the only feasible options? If that's your view, then I fail to see who you wouldn't choose the "lesser of the two evils" in the Push Button Dilemma thread in which we successfully out-argued Agathon. My choice is to opt out of ANY immoral option.

Besides, as I said before, we owe the Iraqi people for Bush's backstab, that's what tips the balance for me...

I owe people I've never met for the unkept promises of another man I've never met? I don't understand why I would.

[Pekka]

I just saw interesting program about Bush admin. There are two different sides fighting over Dubyas attention, chickenhawks and pigeons. Well you guys know how it works of course, but I'm not always familiar with other systems than ours, so excuse my ignorance. Powell is more pigeon, who believes world politics are made in long relationships and all. And chickenhawk leader Wolfowitz is more 'let's roll' type of guy.. It was interesting program, and the system is pretty good. It was funny that all the army guys were against the action at first, but chickenhawks won and now it's 'let's roll' time. Good program.