Would Communism have worked better in Britain?

[Paul Hanson]

That was ages ago.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No need for me to try and do that Duncan.
Communist success speaks for itself.

Oh. I see. There is no logic to your opnion. You only hold that opinion, because of the results of a couple of events. I'm afraid that won't do.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sandman


Sure.



I expect I'm walking into a trap here, but what about Cromwell? Or the Gunpowder Plot?

The Gunpowder Plot was not a revolution- just an assassination attempt. The Civil Wars and the Interregnum of the English Commonwealth have slightly more claim to be a 'revolution' but members of the aristocracy fought on both sides, and Scottish Calvinists fought English Puritans for an Anglican monarch. More of a shuffling around of special interest groups- even the Glorious Revolution resulted in the debarring of one set of monarchs rather than doing away with monarchy as a whole.
The truly revolutionary principles expounded at the Putney Debates and in the 'Agreement of the People'
were never acted upon- entrenched interests of the wealthy gentry (Cromwell's son-in-law prominent amongst them) saw to that.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/print_documents/v1ch15s1.html

"In 1646 John Lilburne, John Wildman, Richard Overton and William Walwyn formed a new political party called the Levellers. Their political programme included: voting rights for all adult males, annual elections, complete religious freedom, an end to the censorship of books and newspapers, the abolition of the monarchy and the House of Lords, trial by jury, an end to taxation of people earning less than £30 a year and a maximum interest rate of 6%. The Levellers started publishing their own newspaper, The Moderate. They also organised meetings where they persuaded people to sign a Petition supporting their policies.

In 1646 Leveller supporters were elected from each regiment of the army to participate in the Putney Debates that began at the Church of St. Mary on 28th October, 1647. The debate was based on 'An Agreement of the People', a constitutional proposal drafted by the Levellers. Senior officers in the New Model Army such as Henry Ireton argued that the vote should be based on the ownership of property.

Others such as Thomas Rainsborough, a member of the House of Commons supported the demands of the Levellers. In the debate he argued: "that every man that is to live under a government ought first by his own consent be put himself under that government."

A compromise was eventually agreed that the vote would be granted to all men except alms-takers and servants and the Putney Debates came to an end on 8th November, 1647. The agreement was never put before the House of Commons. Leaders of the Leveller movement, including John Lilburne and John Wildman, were arrested and their pamphlets were burnt in public. Oliver Cromwell is reported to have said: "What is the purport of the levelling principle but to make the tenant as liberal a fortune as the landlord. I was by birth a gentleman. You must cut these people in pieces or they will cut you in pieces."

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/STUputneydebates.htm

[Sandman]

Ok, what is a revolution then?

[St Leo]

Communism would have been particularly ugly in Britain considering how entrenched the noble class is.

All rise for the right honourable Chairperson Elizabeth II of the British Communist Party.

Arise ye starvelings from your slumbers
God Save the Chairperson.
Arise ye prisoners of want
God Save the Chairperson.
For reason in revolt now thunders
God Save the Chairperson.
And at last ends the age of cant.
God Save the Chairperson.

Away with all your superstitions
God Save the Chairperson.
Servile masses arise, arise
God Save the Chairperson.
We'll change forthwith the old tradition
God Save the Chairperson.
And spurn the dust to win the prize.
God Save the Chairperson.

[Kropotkin]

ENGSOC will rise again!