The Sunflower Dilemma - Could you forgive?

[SlowwHand]

Really. Go back and relook at the first postings.
I offered an humble opinion, suspecting full well what was going to occur.
Someone, comes back with "What makes you think I'd disagree?", then promptly roasts me. Again.

I still think the teacher knows there are differing viewpoints.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So what's your thought on the situation?

I would have told the same lie...

The dead are dead... The living don't really need to be burdened with the sins of others if they don't have to.
It wasn't her fault.

The truth would have been just cruel and uncalled for, while his actions were a simple act of mercy... which in my opinion, is the right thing to do.

[SlowwHand]

Bingo.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

I disagree. I don't believe you are the most compassionate. Your compassion is for a monster who committed a crime against humanity, not for the humanity which this monster helped destroy.

I would have told the man, "I will not forgive you, and God will not forgive you either." I would also have told his mother what her son had done. When it comes to the Holocaust, "Never forgive. Never forget."

My sentiments (almost) exactly.

[SpencerH]

Interesting thread, but change the context slightly. Some serial child molester gets run over by an 18 wheeler in fron of you and while he's busy dying he 'repents' his sins to you and your 10 year old daughter.

Could you forgive?

[Az]

Originally posted by Calc II


I wont stereo-type Jews in general but one Jew I knew long time ago used to hate Nazis with such a passion, he himself became sort of Nazi hating the Jew kinda relationship. In that case, I would say he is no better than a "hateful murderous bigot".


Then you have a qualified personality to become something as evil as the nazis.

When did I say what you quoted me on saying in that post, Calc?!

WTF?!!!

[chequita guevara]

I wrote it, he just quotes it as you for some reason.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Interesting thread, but change the context slightly. Some serial child molester gets run over by an 18 wheeler in fron of you and while he's busy dying he 'repents' his sins to you and your 10 year old daughter.

Could you forgive?

No, but that's not the same.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Azazel


When did I say what you quoted me on saying in that post, Calc?!

WTF?!!!

I only quote the first quote with author's name (i click "quote") the from on I use q /q

I think everyone knew this by now. sorry.

[Az]

In any case, the comparison between hating Nazis, and hating jews is ****ing stupid.

[SlowwHand]

As far as "confronting the mother", that would be just exactly the same as CivNation going and harassing someone's mother.

Yeah. Here comes another disagreement and flame, but the parallel is there.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


No, but that's not the same.

Why not? My version just brings the dilemma closer to home.

[SlowwHand]

I think it matters because you're talking about a young naive military member, as opposed to a social degenerate.
Yesss, the Nazi's suck as a group. Don't go there, please.
I'm just not prepared to make the blanket statement that each individual was evil.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand


No, but that's not the same.

Yep. Everyone loves children, but the Nazi just killed Jews. He can be forgiven.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Yep. Everyone loves children, but the Nazi just killed Jews. He can be forgiven.

What the soldier had done, from a purely consequential standpoint, is far worse--mass killing is worse than serial child molesting, albeit a horrible distinction to have to make.

However, there is a difference of circumstances. A child molester acts entirely of his own volition, contrary to the values around him, and if he is "serial," he did so repeatedly.

Karl participated in one massacre, under orders (not an excuse, but a circumstance), and in an environment where there was tremendous pressure due to their intense fighting, and due to the prevailing attitudes by his comrades--Jews were subhuman, the same rules didn't apply to them. Karl makes it clear that during and directly after the murders, he feels remorse and disgust at what he has done. That he is shortly thereafter hit by a shell and sent to a hospital to die is hardly his fault, and I don't see what opportunity he would have had to "repent" prior to his wounding.

I just don't see any reason to doubt Karl's remorse as genuine--Weisenthal does not, and he would have more reason to doubt than any of us. So it comes down again to when is there a point of no return for contrition?