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  • Unemployment statistics, per capita income, etc

    I recently read that when calculating the unemployment rate of the US, stay at home mom's and dad's are not counted. That got me thinking, the US cannot even do an accurate census, let alone keep track of income tax evaders, let alone enforce income tax laws on cash-only jobs... so how accurate are these unemployment rates that I see in the papers all the time? Forgive me if this is an easy answer, but I'm retarded and need guidance from more experienced and knowledgable 'Poly members. I know that the US uses a variety of tools to approximate the census, but I think that the unemployment rate estimate might be too inaccurate to base policy on. And when comparing other unemployment rates across the world, do their counting methods differ? It just takes a faulty estimate here, a minor miscalculation there, and we're comparing numbers that are effectively inaccurate to a large degree.

    The other thing I was thinking about is that whenever I see arguments between Americans and others about the quality of life for people, I routinely see people presenting the per capita income statistic. Considering the enormous gap between rich and poor, I don't think this statistic can be accurate in effectively estimating the average income of Americans. And considering our diversity, I'm not sure there is such a thing as an average American anyhow.

    Since these statistics are inaccurate, I wonder how inaccurate they are. I would also like to see a statistical analysis of the distribution of wealth. Capitalists always tell me that supply and demand dictates prices and wages. But I think that this may be a fallacy. There is essentially infinite high demand for food and health care. I mean, people need to eat. And in this current economy, most people need automobiles, cars, and telecommunications. Could the huge profits that corporations take actually be making our economies and production capacities inefficient? I mean, if we took the money that is wasted on CEO bonuses, corporate fringe benefits and such, I bet it would come to an enormous figure. All things being equal, if that amount of money were put back into the system instead of going into the pockets of the rich, would it make our economy more efficient? I'm not going to speculate on the answer... the usual suspects of lefties and righties will no doubt choose their sides without bothering to think about my questions, but I only hope that some of our more economically minded and statistically gifted 'Poly members put their political views aside and actually think about this.

    My gut tells me that capitalism might be more inefficient than it's fans think. But please, don't think in black and white. This isn't a discussion of capitalism vs. communism... both are extremes and IMO, both don't work. In the broadest sense, the total value of wealth in this world is essentially the total amount of labor hours that the population provides. And if the economy is the total amount of wealth, then it would be a relative constant to the number of able-bodied workers. So the notion that all things being equal, the economy goes up and down at will, is false. Would a more equal distribution of wages be more efficient? *** NOTE I am not talking about the state seizing property or progessive taxation policies, or tax cuts... so please don't go down that road. I simply want to better understand currency, statistics, the idea of a market society, and labor in an attempt to improve the quality of life for human civilization.
    To us, it is the BEAST.

  • #2
    This isn't a discussion of capitalism vs. communism... both are extremes and IMO, both don't work.
    History has proved communism doesn't work, but history has yet to prove the same about capitalism.
    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
    Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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    • #3
      Originally posted by David Floyd
      History has proved communism doesn't work, but history has yet to prove the same about capitalism.
      Why do you always jack other people's threads, David?
      (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
      (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
      (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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      • #4
        Sorry. Ignore me.
        Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
        Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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        • #5
          Originally posted by David Floyd


          History has proved communism doesn't work, but history has yet to prove the same about capitalism.
          bull. Pure communism has never existed. Stalinism != Communism.
          "Chegitz, still angry about the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991?
          You provide no source. You PROVIDE NOTHING! And yet you want to destroy capitalism.. you criminal..." - Fez

          "I was hoping for a Communist utopia that would last forever." - Imran Siddiqui

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          • #6
            dammit you buttholes... WtF did I say... the first damn post... DAMN YOU FLOYD!
            To us, it is the BEAST.

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            • #7
              Well when someone stipulates a "fact", and then says not to discuss it as if it is a fact, I might bring it up

              But I won't say any more about it.
              Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
              Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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              • #8
                Re: Unemployment statistics, per capita income, etc

                Originally posted by Sava
                The other thing I was thinking about is that whenever I see arguments between Americans and others about the quality of life for people, I routinely see people presenting the per capita income statistic. Considering the enormous gap between rich and poor, I don't think this statistic can be accurate in effectively estimating the average income of Americans. And considering our diversity, I'm not sure there is such a thing as an average American anyhow.
                Okay, suppose the income distribution follows a normal distribution ("bell curve"), there are several things you need to know.

                Arithematic mean (average)
                Median - median is the value where 50% of the curve is to its left and 50% is to its right
                Mode - mode is the value of the highest point on the curve
                Range - range is simply max - min

                The average is easily skewed when there are just a few excessively rich people. The median usually gives you a better picture, but it too can be skewed. The mode gives you the clearest picture of how your average Joe on the street is doing in terms of income.
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by David Floyd
                  Well when someone stipulates a "fact", and then says not to discuss it as if it is a fact, I might bring it up

                  But I won't say any more about it.
                  I said... "IMO both don't work..."

                  SO STOP IT NOW!
                  To us, it is the BEAST.

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                  • #10
                    I think there are a ton of excessively rich people skewing the line as well as undocumented poverty that isn't represented in such averages.
                    To us, it is the BEAST.

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                    • #11
                      So the average won't work, you need these other numbers.
                      (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                      (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                      (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by David Floyd


                        History has proved communism doesn't work, but history has yet to prove the same about capitalism.
                        Those things can't be proven.
                        "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
                        "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
                        "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

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                        • #13
                          The unemployment rate counts people that work, and then includes people that collect unemployment insurance and take advantage of government programs like COBRA (health insurance for 18 months after you've been fired), to determine the rate.

                          It's the only way to do it. Like you said, you can't count those people that simply make no effort to find a job.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Urban Ranger
                            So the average won't work, you need these other numbers.
                            Just throw the the whole ****ed up thing out. You can never make capitalism fair and work at the same time. Why do you think all these social democracies like Canada are so far in debt they have to raise taxes on the middle class?

                            Yes, I'm jacking your thread. Sorry, I'm a straight up communist. If you want me to shut up fine, but if me an the libertarians can't participate in this thread then it's gonna be pretty ****in' boring.

                            Sorry UR. This is not even a response to you. I just got started.
                            "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
                            "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
                            "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

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                            • #15
                              Stop threadjacking .

                              We get Floyd shut up and then you start up. Oy vey!
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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