This just in: North Korea to End armistice!

[Robert]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


He is anything but a lunatic. As the W. admininstration is planning on building up in NE Asia - even establishing a "NE Asia HQ," this comes out.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

NOT a lunatic?
His people have to wear a jewel with his and his father face on it daily! If they lose it, they're sent to the camps.

NOT a lunatic?
There's no energy enough in NK so all energy is shut down during the night, all but the lights that shine at a big statue of Kim Il Sung.

NOT a lunatic?
The year of the birth of Kim Il Sung is the start of their year-counting!

NOT a lunatic?
Kim yong Il demends to be named by his people in the same way the roman emperors wanted to be named, as gods.

NOT a lunatic?
There are police officers on the street guiding the traffic BUT THERE IS NOT TRAFFIC! Because there are no cars.
The officers are guiding the traffic anyway because nobody is unemployed in NK!

There are people working in the supermarket! They're busy putting new products in on the shelves when the shelves are empty.
BUT THERE are NO CUSTOMERS because there is nothing to put on the shelves.

NOT a lunatic?
People are trying to get to CHINA because CHINA is the ultimate dream of freedom for NK!
CAN YOU IMAGINE?

You obviously have no idea about NK but just trow in the usual anti-america rhetoric.

NK has admitted being busy on a nuclear program.
AFTER that Bush decided (with other countries) to stop the oil-program, since that was a part of the deal.
Oil for no-nuclear program.

Do you know that South Korea wouldn't have existed without America? The communists were on their way taking the entire island.
If it were not for the americans who have protected the borders of South Korea, South Korea wouldn't have been the free country it is right now.

Does europe actually know how it is to protect a country for nothing! We have already difficulties to protect Turkey temporarily.

Kim yong Il will actually use nuclear weapons.
he doesn't care about his people who're starving anyway.

He's far worse than Sadam.
And I actually fear for the worst.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
But that all doesn't mean sheet. We are talking about a regime that is threatening nuclear destruction unless they get thier fuel oil and what should be done about it. We're talking about what the proper response is to madmen like that. What do you want the world to do, kitty? Give it to him?

I already said that I want the Amis to play it a lot tougher than they have been. And I really don't think the Euros have much to do with anything in NK.

So what's the disagreement?

My initial comment was that

a) the Euros have very little responsibility for the current NK situation (that falls on the Nkers of course, in addition to the russians, chinese, amis and SKers)

b) putting euro troops in SK would be a bad idea precisely because the western powers would have multiple voices speaking for them

c) even if it was a good idea in my mind to multilateralise the foreign presence in SK, I doubt many americans would be happy with the result

You're the one who started the trash talk on who's been easier on dictators in general.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by CyberShy
NOT a lunatic?
People are trying to get to CHINA because CHINA is the ultimate dream of freedom for NK!
CAN YOU IMAGINE?

Stop frothing at the mouth. Try to engage your brain to think about why certain things are done that way.

Originally posted by CyberShy
You obviously have no idea about NK but just trow in the usual anti-america rhetoric.

Of course I have no idea. I just live in the region. On the other hand, you know a lot more, even your sources of information wrt DPRK are limited and biased.

Originally posted by CyberShy
Do you know that South Korea wouldn't have existed without America? The communists were on their way taking the entire island.
If it were not for the americans who have protected the borders of South Korea, South Korea wouldn't have been the free country it is right now.

Study some history, will you, instead of just sprouting the usual propaganda you have been spoonfed?

[Robert]

Stop frothing at the mouth. Try to engage your brain to think about why certain things are done that way.

cool argument!

Of course I have no idea. I just live in the region. On the other hand, you know a lot more, even your sources of information wrt DPRK are limited and biased.

I'm happy to see that you know that much about my sources while you don't even know my sources.

That you live in the region doesn't mean anything. The Iranian people live in the regio as well, do you think they're well informed?

My sources are several people who have visited North Korea, and have spoken with people who fled from North Korea.
Other sources are Open Doors (www.opendoors.com) and recently an article in Elsevier, a dutch magazine (www.else4.nl)

I'm sure you still think that my sources are biased anyway, because that's always a cool thing to say if you have no counter-arguments!

Now this is the moment you should come with more personal insults.

Study some history, will you, instead of just sprouting the usual propaganda you have been spoonfed?

Another cool example of UR who claims that people who have a different opinion than himself got that opinion through propaganda.

instead of making silly remarks like the latter, tell me the real history that I seem to lack.

Another UR post with no content but just insults and full of the usual "I'm better than you" rhetoric.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
I am not one of the people accusing DPRK. It seems that you are.

You've been given numerous cites then.

[Sava]

Even though North Korea was working on its nuclear program and such during the Clinton years, this renewed tension is the direct consequence of Bush's pissing contest.

[Seeker]

BTW, CyberShy may be very very VERY wrong about many many things, but he is not wrong about this issue:

Kim il Jung is not Brezhnev.
He may not be 'deterred'. Also, in nuclear terms he is in a terribly dangerous transition, it requires 300 nukes to effectively deter the USA, he is far from that so he must feel insecure. Not 'First Communion' insecure. Japanese prison commandant in 1944 insecure.

He is a wacky 'hothouse plant' of a boy-man who has grown up in a bizzare fantasyland where his every wish is a divine ordinance.

He is NOT a rational actor IMO. And after living here for some time, I have also talked to NK refugees, as well as the 'tour guide' minder (only non-Americans can go on the Pyongyang tour nowadays).

He has, for example, a museum devoted entirely to explaining how he is a master in every artistic medium, from film to clay, etc....and how he 'perfected' the arts.

The question is...how irrational is he? How controlled is he by more or less rational 'handlers'? Second, the worlds prime concern should be the NK people. If Kim is unhappy, they are unhappy. In fact, ****ed is a more accurate description.

What they need is peace: Reform. Money. Special economic zones. Kim to die. The internet. Most of all money. More money. A plan leading to reconciliation and reunification. Money.

What they don't need: Bombing. A war started by their maniacal leaders which will get most of their army (and, in NK, therefore most of the population) killed. A provoked Kim getting a serious small penis problem and deciding to 'call out' Bush by nuking LA, therefore resulting in the Nuking of Pyongyang (which few actually live in) and fallout (which would devastate the population, which literally scratches a living from the soil).

Don't let the Korean people die in a war which would slaughter millions.

[DanS]

Kim il Jung is not Brezhnev.

Even Brezhnev was not Brezhnev before the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[Robert]

BTW, CyberShy may be very very VERY wrong about many many things, but he is not wrong about this issue

I'm not sure yet if I should be happy or not with this

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
Kim il Jung is not Brezhnev.

Even Brezhnev was not Brezhnev before the Cuban Missile Crisis.

?

Didn't we have a discussion on this already. Kruschev got what he wanted out of Kennedy...

[Ned]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune


The Korean War itself was the fault of the United States.

What business did they have to meddle in SE Asia?

Comrad Tribune, did you know that NK attacked south and the UN, not the US, intervened?

Effectively you said, then, was that the Korean War was the fault of the United Nations and the United Nations had no business in SE? Asia.

[Robert]

The Korean War itself was the fault of the United States.

What business did they have to meddle in SE Asia?

That's true, if genocide is commited in SE we all should act like "That's not our part of the world, they'll be fine"

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger (several pages ago):

....Blame the US.

I think that is an excellent summation of this thread.

...

Personally, I don't think that appeasement is the way to go. Unfortunately, we've already established a course of performance: they threaten, we cave. We've done it a couple of times now. And now they expect it. What a ****ing mess.

-Arrian

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Sava
Even though North Korea was working on its nuclear program and such during the Clinton years, this renewed tension is the direct consequence of Bush's pissing contest.

No, this is the result of Clinton's Diplomacy. Clinton appeased him. Now he thinks he can manipulate Bush. Bush was just smart enough to see the fact that Kim would try to manipulate him before it happened.

[Sava]

Considering the two alternatives are diplomacy and war... I choose diplomacy. Number 1, I could give half a sh1t about NK. Number 2, I don't want to send Americans to die fighting Kim "jag bag" Il. Number 3, the last thing you do to a super-paranoid dictator is provoke him just to show the American people you're a tough guy.

Bush

Clinton was a dipsh1t, but at least he was smart enough to know not to open that jar of flies in NK.