Mean Streets

[KrazyHorse]

I've stopped a mugging before, but have never had anyone attempt to mug me.

[DuncanK]

The apartment complex next me is pretty bad. Some women broke into a mother's apartment and started beating the mother up in front of her small children. I called the police. I noticed though that the victims hadn't even called them themselves. They were quite shocked (and I think worried) that the cops had come.

[MOBIUS]

Re: Mean Streets

Originally posted by DanS
In a corner gas station in NE Washington, DC, a man was assassinated in broad daylight. What was the response by those pumping gas?

One guy who was pumping kerosene calmly walked over, looked at the dying man, then walked back to pumping his kerosene, paid and left, without even calling 911 or calling for help.

These are some mean streets. Twice the murder rate of Kabul. I used to live about 5 blocks from there.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Feb14.html

Could've been worse - he could have stolen the wallet and used it to pay for the gas...

Similar story in the UK though, I remember a story of a woman being raped, finding a passerby to help her - who also raped her!

At least we don't get many killings here though...

[Az]

Tough, DanS. I don't think that the apathy goes that deep here, but yes, I presume that this could happen here as well.

Nah. I was thinking more along the lines of a jackass, a monster, a dipsh*t, someone unworthy of sentience. Y'know, that sort of stuff.

so Libertarian it is. .

[DanS]

Originally posted by Dissident
Kerosene?

Oil used for heating.

[SnowFire]

The fake mugging I buy. In crowded areas, everybody assumes that somebody else will do it. A rather famous psychology experiment had some BS test they claimed to be doing, and in the middle of it a fire alarm or some other distraction went off. If only 1 or 2 people were taking the test, they immediately left the room to inform the test-givers, see if it could get turned off, if it was legit, etc. With 10-20, everybody just kind of stood around nervously and then resumed taking their test, with the big annoying alarm still going off.

This, however, is pretty darn sad. Just one person and something a lot more serious than just a mugging. I sure hope for his sake that he really enjoyed whatever it was he was in such a rush to get off to.

[Spiffor]

There was a similar story in France which had been known some years ago.
A tourist in the Mont Saint Michel was trapped by the extremely fast tide. She was drowning. People on the promenade lokked the scene with interest, and one of them even recorded it. Nobody called for help.

I don't think it has anything to do with libertarianism, or not caring for the neighbour (at least, in this occurence). People simply expect someone else will act.

In the parisian subway, most muggers get away with it, even when the subway is crowded, simply because no one makes the effort / dares to stand up against the mugger.

[JohnT]

This is nothing new, Dan. Ms. Genovese was killed in Queens by a man who knifed her, left, and returned not once, but twice over a 15 minute period to stab her again - the third time with fatal consequences. The amazing thing is that 38 people admitted to hearing her cry for help or seeing her get stabbed, and not a single person called the police until 15 minutes after his third and last attack.

This happened in 1964, btw, and was a national sensation. But I doubt it was new, then.

Here is a more concise tale: http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/kitty.htm

[MRT144]

like i said, bystander apathy

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by JohnT
This is nothing new, Dan. Ms. Genovese was killed in Queens by a man who knifed her, left, and returned not once, but twice over a 15 minute period to stab her again - the third time with fatal consequences. The amazing thing is that 38 people admitted to hearing her cry for help or seeing her get stabbed, and not a single person called the police until 15 minutes after his third and last attack.

There was another one too. A woman was chased by a man with a crowbar. She was eventually forced to jump off a bridge, and died from drowning (or perhaps hypothermia).

[Dis]

they still use kerosene back east? funny

I lived in Norfolk and we used natural gas and electricity for heating.

[Dis]

and by the way is it possible to get an official report on this? I am having trouble believing this story.

edit: I noticed the link, but it does not work for me. It asks information I do not wish to give

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Same thing in Mexico City. An independent report showed there were 3.7 MILLION crimes in the last 6 months. With slightly less than 9 million people in the city itself that means people are almost guaranteed to get mugged/robbed/kidnapped/killed every year.

My toll? Mugged twice in the last year and a half, one in the street, one on the bus. Fortunately the second one (bus) was not successful.

Mugged twice? wow

Ill be sure to be packing when i go south of the border...

Once, on the River Walk here in San Antonio, when i was a kid, i saw my uncle take down a mugger who ripped a purse off an old lady, seperating her shoulder. (well, i didnt actually see it, i just saw him run after him a ways, and later found out that he took him down)

[KrazyHorse]

Diss, you know you could just lie, right?

As Man Lay Dying, Witnesses Turned Away

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By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 15, 2003; Page A01


D.C. police released a startling surveillance tape yesterday that shows a daylight killing at a Northeast Washington gas station and witnesses doing nothing to report the crime or tend to the victim as he lay bleeding on the concrete.

The videotape, from the Hess station in the 500 block of Florida Avenue, shows in gruesome detail the Jan. 31 slaying of Allen E. Price, 43, of the 2100 block of Fourth Street NW. Police said they were shocked by the apathy of those who were there, including one man who continued pumping kerosene after looking briefly at Price's body.

At a time when homicide detectives are struggling to solve cases, police officials said the tape depicts the astounding levels of meanness and indifference they confront on the city's streets. Throughout the 1980s and 1990s, police and prosecutors watched numerous cases collapse as witnesses were shot or intimidated. In this instance, several people at the gas station did not appear to be frightened but seemed not to care after the shot was fired and the gunman ran.

"That's just one of the worst things I've ever seen," Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey declared yesterday after screening the tape at police headquarters. "There just aren't words to describe something like that."

The shooting happened quickly and with no apparent warning near the large Florida Avenue market complex, in a crime-ridden area just blocks from Gallaudet University. The snippet of color videotape that police released -- taken by a camera positioned atop the gas station -- begins at 9:08 a.m., with traffic passing steadily on the avenue and several cars in view at the station.

At 9:09 a.m., the shooter appears at a distance, walking up Sixth Street on the far side of Florida Avenue. He appears to be a man in a black coat, but the image is blurry. He weaves through traffic on Florida Avenue and appears to run the last few feet toward the kerosene pump where Price was standing. Police have analyzed the video frame by frame, and Ramsey provided a running commentary, stating: "Boom! That's the gunshot."

Price then drops from view, and the gunman runs back across the Florida Avenue and disappears from sight.

A homicide lieutenant said yesterday that the killer is believed to have targeted Price. Police have announced no motive or suspects.

After the shooting, one witness -- who was just feet away from the gunman -- looked for a moment at Price's body and then turned away. Not only did he finish pumping his kerosene, but the man paid for the purchase and drove off, giving the camera its clearest look at Price lying by the pump. Police have not found that customer.

For the next few minutes, the camera records a series of cars pulling away from the station, with at least one new car pulling up to the kerosene pump where Price lay. But it is not until about 9:13, more than three minutes after the shooting, that the gas station's manager is seen approaching the body.

The manager, Philip Donkorsaid yesterday that he did not hear the gunshot from his bulletproof booth and was not aware of the shooting until a customer told him. He said he found Price on his back.

"He's dead. His eyes open. His mouth open," Donkor said. "Right then, I saw that he was dead."

Police said that someone in the area finally flagged down a police car, and it arrived about seven minutes after the shooting.

The first 911 call was not made until 9:36 a.m., but police did not reveal who made it. Donkor said he tried to call 911 immediately after he was told about the shooting but got a recording and hung up.

Ramsey has been criticized by D.C. Council members and others for rising homicide totals and for homicide clearance rates that are lower than the average for other cities. The chief has contended that witnesses who could help police get killers off the streets do not come forward.

"This is the kind of thing that we're up against," Ramsey said. "To have someone walk by as if nothing occurred is frustrating."

U.S. Attorney Roscoe C. Howard Jr. echoed that complaint, saying that relatively few slayings in the District occur in secluded spots. But witnesses simply won't come forward, he said, adding, "If you've got 262 murders in a year, and you're not able to solve half of them," reluctant witnesses must be an issue.

Still, former D.C. police chief Isaac Fulwood Jr., who oversaw the department when crack cocaine led to a surge in killings in the late 1980s and early 1990s, said the reaction to Price's death amazed him.

"Something's wrong, I mean, something's very wrong and callous, and [it] is getting worse," Fulwood said.

Julia Dunkins, chief executive of Survivors of Homicide Inc., said people from across the city have become desensitized to death. "We have to stop saying, 'My community isn't like this. This kind of thing could not happen in my area,' " Dunkins said.

Louis R. Mizell Jr., a security consultant who maintains a 40,000-category database on crimes, said similar episodes have unfolded throughout the country.

"We record hundreds of cases nationwide each year in which people witnessed horrible crimes but react with depraved indifference, refusing to intervene or even call 911," Mizell said. "The encouraging news, however, is that we record thousands of cases in which people did get involved, often heroically and at their own peril."

Along Florida Avenue, other merchants said they were not shocked by the crime or the behavior of the witnesses.

At Coast In Liquors, a clerk said he could remember an attempted robbery two years ago in which a man came after him with a stick and then threw bricks at his windows.

Outside the store, people stopped to watch but did nothing to intervene, he said.

"Nobody [was] trying to help," said the clerk, who wouldn't give his name. "They were looking. You know how people do."



© 2003 The Washington Post Company

[KrazyHorse]

Ill be sure to be packing when i go south of the border...

That's not a very good idea, unless the idea of 5 years in a Mexican jail is okay with you...