Treatmeant of workers in Socialist States

[DanS]

Ah ha.

OK, first the obvious. You got the public and private mixed up. Public sector = 45%, not 55%.

Still seems a bit high, but I can't be arsed at this time of night to check it.

[DuncanK]

[DanS]

There was a good documentary that Frontline ran tonight called China In The Red which went followed 30 Chinese from 1998 through 2001.

The filmakers said that their minders did not allow them to film or interview the unemployed in a city that had estimated unemployment of about 15% of the entire population. Then the local government didn't allow them to film one of the people whose condition went downhill after the first two interviews. Another was sentenced to death for graft and wasn't allowed to be interviewed again. Lastly, a government-run company disallowed one of their menial laborers from following up with the filmakers.

3/30 muzzled and this was a middle-of-the-road apolitical generally favorable documentary!

[DuncanK]

Christ, like people don't know there is unemployment there.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by DanS
Ah ha.

OK, first the obvious. You got the public and private mixed up. Public sector = 45%, not 55%.

Still seems a bit high, but I can't be arsed at this time of night to check it.

I read the figure about 5 years ago, and it might have been from a source older than that.

Note in 1992 it was 52.7%....or ~55%

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DuncanK
I'm not saying that China has ever treated their workers very good,

[grammar police]
. . . very well
[/grammar police]

There was a really interesting piece on the PBS documentary series, Frontline, tonight, "China in the Red." You can watch the entire program over the net, too. Anyway, the gist of it was that the market reforms are badly hurting a large segmnt of China's workforce. Many of the workers they interviewed not only look back with longing on the old way of doing things, they way they described it was that they actually enjoyed their work.

China's headed for big trouble. There are mass demonstrations by the unemployed daily. If the Communist Party doesn't figure out a way to help these people, the coutry's gonna explode.

[DuncanK]

Che,

is that tonight tonight, as in later on. or last night as in already been played. I'd really like to see it.

delay that. i got it off the link. it's obvious anyway

[Az]

There was a really interesting piece on the PBS documentary series, Frontline, tonight, "China in the Red." You can watch the entire program over the net, too. Anyway, the gist of it was that the market reforms are badly hurting a large segmnt of China's workforce. Many of the workers they interviewed not only look back with longing on the old way of doing things, they way they described it was that they actually enjoyed their work.

China's headed for big trouble. There are mass demonstrations by the unemployed daily. If the Communist Party doesn't figure out a way to help these people, the coutry's gonna explode.

better that than all the crap they did in the 60s and 70s, IMO.

[Dinner]

As more and more of the inefficient state run companies are put out of business by the more efficient market orientated companies then China's problems are only going to grow.

[Daz]

First of all, allow me to say that I am probably one of few here who has actually lived in a socialist state for 20 years or so.

What I cannot agree upon is the generalization of the term social state. To Shi: you have to know that China is NOT the only socialist state in the world. Yes, there have been much more of them, but they dissapeared in the 1990s.

So, from first hand experience I have to tell you that the socialist concept was quite humane. Much more that capitalism. I remember all workers having a regular paycheck, almost no layoffs, the rights of the workers were FAR better that in the USA or western Europe. They still are because after the transition not much was changed due to strong worker syndicates. Private enterpreneurship was almost non-existant until the 80s but thats what you get when the state runs things. Things like a whole town losing their job because the local steel mill got taken over just didnt happen.

So please dont generalize: it makes you sound so frickin ignorant american.

[Daz]

First of all, allow me to say that I am probably one of few here who has actually lived in a socialist state for 20 years or so.

What I cannot agree upon is the generalization of the term social state. To Shi: you have to know that China is NOT the only socialist state in the world. Yes, there have been much more of them, but they dissapeared in the 1990s.

So, from first hand experience I have to tell you that the socialist concept was quite humane. Much more that capitalism. I remember all workers having a regular paycheck, almost no layoffs, the rights of the workers were FAR better that in the USA or western Europe. They still are because after the transition not much was changed due to strong worker syndicates. Private enterpreneurship was almost non-existant until the 80s but thats what you get when the state runs things. Things like a whole town losing their job because the local steel mill got taken over just didnt happen.

So please dont generalize: it makes you sound so frickin ignorant american and that makes other americans feel uncomfortable.

[Az]

So, from first hand experience I have to tell you that the socialist concept was quite humane. Much more that capitalism. I remember all workers having a regular paycheck, almost no layoffs, the rights of the workers were FAR better that in the USA or western Europe. They still are because after the transition not much was changed due to strong worker syndicates. Private enterpreneurship was almost non-existant until the 80s but thats what you get when the state runs things. Things like a whole town losing their job because the local steel mill got taken over just didnt happen.

I was born, and spent my early childhood in the USSR.

[DanS]

Private enterpreneurship was almost non-existant until the 80s but thats what you get when the state runs things.

Not a fair trade.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I can deal with this one.

--

And China needs to go through some growing pains as it becomes more capitalist. Of course, one of the problems is that you really cannot have an independant labor union in a country that says it is a 'workers' state' (whether it is true or not).

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I can deal with this one.

--

And China needs to go through some growing pains as it becomes more capitalist. Of course, one of the problems is that you really cannot have an independant labor union in a country that says it is a 'workers' state' (whether it is true or not).

China is just too big. Maybe it will do better in the information age if they can develope enough, but as Che says its very unstable. I would never invest a lot of money there.