Can We Have A Civil Discussion About The War Between The States ?

[SlowwHand]

Re: Can We Have A Civil Discussion About The War Between The States ?

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I'd like to, because I'm interested in the strategy aspects of different battles, and I also know there are several others here with interest and knowledge.

Don't turn this into a pissing contest, please.

I find the battles at Gettysburg and Vicksburg interesting.
Both show why cities come under siege.
Cities are generally located in locations of strategic importance.

Vicksburg was situated on the Mississippi, and allowed supplies to remain flowing, even after New Orleans was captured.

Gettysburg, also considered by many to be the turning point in the war, was situated at the juncture of 9 roads.

Supplies and roads are essential.

As I said Boris, it wasn't all about slaves.
It was about people like you.

[SlowwHand]

Porter was the only Naval name I could recall handily.

[Capt Dizle]

This was a guy who turned his back on his home and family. Told his wife to go north or south. Could care less. Maybe not born in the north but a born Yankee nonetheless.

I wish we had had him and a fleet of 50 ironclads to boot.

[SlowwHand]

Tom "Stonewall" Jackson's Foot Cavalry were pretty amazing too.

Jackson was pretty interesting all by himself, what with "letting his vitals hang right" and all.

[Capt Dizle]

Boris, I want to tell you one thing that may calm you mind. I will never get over the war. My grandfather died still pissed over the war. My dad, who is 82 and in the next room singing hymns would stop and start cussing if I mentioned any of the thousands of words he associates with the war.

I would drag my tired old arse up in a saddle if the war would start up again and I would gleefully kill as many Yankees as I could. I will go to my grave hating. And for an eternity spit north in Hell, if I can summon any spittle.

But in the end you win, because my son and his generation don't give a hoot.

Damn all Yankees and Yankee communists o hell.

[Capt Dizle]

I am lookiing forward to how they portray Jackson in the upcoming Gods and Generals.

I was pretty pissed off that in Gettysburg they had Longstreet saying "we should have freed the slaves and then declared", because I don't believe he ever said such a thing.

Jackson is so clouded in myth and legend.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov




Ok, time to put up or shut up, Sloww. Quote me on a "cracker" comment. I never said any such thing in this thread and you know it. Until then, I will consider attributing such a quote to me inaccurately is a personal insult and hope suitable action is taken.

Honestly, this southern persecution complex is really irritating. I promise you that were you to come here to NYC, you'd be treated with the same hospitality and charm as anyone else, you ****ing ****!

1) I didn't say "in this thread"
2) No, I don't feel inclined to go retrieve every post you've made with this, and other, insults.
3) Take it as a personal insult if you'd like, because that's certainly how it was intended.
4) I can only assume that "hospitality" is all relative; as from my view, your comments are what I would expect in real-life.

[SlowwHand]

Ok. "white Southern cracker", written by...someone else, who I won't name, because I promised Ming to let it go, as well as promising clear skies the same.

So you're off the hook on the specific terminology involving "cracker".
Lord knows there are enough other examples, in this thread.

[Chris 62]

Airforce, talk some more about the battles, I know quite a bit about it, get yourself back into it.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sprayber


You assume everyone that dares to smear the good name of the northern name is apologizing for slavery. I for one am glad I was born in the United States instead of the CSA. It's the attitude that northerners have about a war in which they had nothing to do with that gets to me. We wont apologize for slavery as long as northerners admit that black people weren't that big a deal to them either. John Brown was more of a black hero than Lincoln ever could be. At least John Brown didnt use them as political capital.

The post was a troll response to jimmytrick's equally trolling statement. Don't take it for more than it was.

Funny how in one sentence you talk about not classifying Southerners all the same (which I never did), but then turn around and make a blanket generalization about Northerners. In my experience, Northerners have been far more the recipients of sweeping, disdainful generalizations than Northerners. And I've lived in the South most of my life. Southerners often make it a sport of mocking "Yankees." We could care less about in that regard, except when you start in with the Southern glorification.

And I certainly would say John Brown is quite the hero, despite revionist attempts to paint him as a bloodthirsty madman. But the demonization of Lincoln and the second-guessing of his motives is patently disgusting. I don't ascribe to the notion that he was perfect by any means, but he wasn't a monster nor was he acting out of malice or evil. He did what he thought was right in order to preserve the country he loved, the United States of America. Funny how the uberpatriots of this board seem to not like that notion.

jimmytrick: That's really sad. And pathetic. It was 140 years ago, and you hold such hate over it? I hope you are exaggerating, because if not, I've reached a new level of pity for you.

Sloww: Fine. From now on, whenever you disagree with me, I will assume you are really calling me a ********ing ******. That's how that line of maturity goes, after all. Now excuse me while I go tell everyone on the board how you called me a ********ing ******. Fair enough?

[SlowwHand]

I'd like to point out the difference in Chris and Boris.
What about The Wilderness? Tough country.

Pretty good site.

http://www2.cr.nps.gov/abpp/battles/tvii.htm

"Today, more than one-third of all principal Civil War battlefields are either lost or are hanging onto existence by the slenderest of threads. It is not too late to protect the remaining battlefields if the nation acts swiftly. If it does not act now, however, within 10 years we may lose fully two-thirds of the principal battlefields."

Now that's a bad damned deal.

Virginia had the vast majority of battles with 123, followed by Tennessee with 38 and Georgia with 31.
Missouri had 27, mostly among themselves.

Texas had 5.

[Chris 62]

The wilderness was a very rough battle.

It was said that Grant broke down and cried in his tent when he got the Union casualty totals, but kept attacking, because it was his duty.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I'd like to point out the difference in Chris and Boris.

Finally, I get a compliment out of you.

[SlowwHand]

Shoot yeah The Wilderness was rough.
Grant was ok. I imagine I'm risking fire and brimstone over that one.

Boris, I'm ignoring you, boy. Comprende ?

[Capt Dizle]

Now that this thread has been thoroughly trashed let me make something resembling a rational contribution.

One of the ironies of the war was the fact that commanders on both sides were painfully slow to learn how rifled muskets had changed the nature of war. In earlier wars the musket had been much less effective and had far less effective range. The tactics used in the early and middle war years reflected the past and not the present state of the art of war. Jackson, for all his brilliance, and Lee too, failed to grasp the fact that offensive losses in even the most overwhelming victory were so great as to prevent a follow up coup de grace.

As a result, even though the ANV whipped the yankees decisively time and time again there was never an oportunity to actually end the war by victory on open ground.

It was only in the last years of the war when both sides understood that trench warfare trumped that the issue was decided, and that by attrition.

If the South had followed the lead of forethinking generals like Longstreet, and fought defensively it is highly unlikely that the south could have lost as it would have taken ten years or more to whittle down southern forces.

On the other hand, if Lincoln had understood how little chance any southern army actually had of taking Washington, he could have emptied northern garrisons and swamped the south early in the war. During the first half of the war about 50% of Federal troops were in garrisons rather than in the field, a terrible mistake.

Great generals fought the war using the tactics of previous wars, a recurring theme throughout history.

When you look through history at great conquest you often see how the conquerer managed to avoid this mistake. Examples are the Mongols and the Nazis, both of whom brought state of the art death to their enemies in a time when the pendulum of history had swung to the offensive.

Lee lost because he fought wrong. Longstreet was right.