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  • The Dark Horse of the UN Security Council

    Poor and corrupt but world players for a day

    Guinea is to be president of the security council. Few, though, have even heard of Saddam

    James Astill in Conakry
    Saturday February 1, 2003
    The Guardian

    Night falls on Conakry, Guinea's coastal capital. Out in the Atlantic lights appear; European trawlers scooping up shoals of snapper and sole a few miles from west Africa's shore. For the people of the city, bound by poverty in a country besieged by sporadic wars on three borders, the world they represent is as distant as the stars.
    Mariama Jalo's world is six square feet of concrete jetty, where she eats, sleeps and sells oranges and cassava to the local dugout fishermen.

    "We're always here," she says in Creole, arranging a sheet of black plastic to cover herself and her three children. Earning around 30p on a good day, she has no time to go elsewhere, though she sometimes gets news from the town. "Life's not bad," says Mariama, a beautiful 35-year-old, in a purple headscarf and matching gown. "But business is small."

    Guinea is one of the world's poorest, most isolated countries. Its seven million people live on around £200 a year for a little over 40 years on average. That's roughly the same as in next-door Sierra Leone. But unlike Sierra Leone, Guinea has had no civil war to justify and draw international attention to its misery. Last year, not a single story solely about Guinea appeared in the British press.

    Now, by a quirk of international relations, the country is charged with deciding the fate of another suffering people.

    As a temporary member of the security council, its vote could determine whether, and under what circumstances, the UN sanctions war with Iraq.

    If there is anything odd about that, foreign minister Francois Fall will not admit it. "The situation in Iraq remains a serious concern for the people of Guinea," he said yesterday, shortly before leaving for New York, where he will next month assume the council's presidency. "It's a question of principle: as a member of the international community we have to see that Iraq disarms."

    Back on her jetty, Mariama has never heard of Iraq. Nor it seems has anyone in the night-time streets of Conakry: not the huddles of men drinking on rubbish-blown corners, not even the students reading in the pale light outside the well-lit military barracks. "What do I know about that place?" says Francis Issay, a refugee from Sierra Leone. "We're not even on the same map."

    His ignorance is not surprising. Three-quarters of Guineans are illiterate. The handheld radios crackling in the dark of every Conakry street offer no news of Iraq; only triumphalist government reports, delivered in the name of General Lansana Conte, Guinea's ailing dictator.

    In Mr Conte, Guineans have a leader not unlike Saddam Hussein. He seized power in a coup two decades ago, and has maintained it by crushing dissent whilst allowing his cronies to plunder Guinea's vast mineral wealth. Though he introduced democracy in 1993, according to Amnesty International his security forces open fire whenever "political opponents or citizens have dared to show their dissatisfaction with the government".

    Though he has liberalised the mineral sector - which includes gold, diamonds and a third of the world's bauxite reserves - Guinea remains one of the world's most corrupt countries, and its people are getting poorer every year, according to the anti-corruption group Transparency International.

    Last year Mr Conte engineered a referendum to allow himself to rule for another term; or, as most analysts assumed, for life. As a question of principle, he might expect international condemnation. Instead western donors give him over $200m (£121m) a year, about half the national bud get; plus, in America's case, arms and military training.

    Last week the US added another $2m, ostensibly to cope with refugees from neighbouring Liberia. They reason that, if Mr Conte is not perfect, he is a valuable ally against Liberia's tyrannous president, Charles Taylor, and the rebels who until recently controlled much of Sierra Leone.

    Mr Fall, the foreign minister, denies that Guinea would vote for whatever UN resolution its patron proposed. "It's not a matter of what America wants or doesn't want - even Germany or France would support a war if the council's sanctions are violated," he said.

    For a Muslim country, Guinea's mullahs show no apparent interest in their country's role in the future of Iraq. Seated outside the main mosque, Imam al-Haji Ibrahima Ba asked: "What could we refuse the Americans? They are very strong. Religiously we are with the Iraqis, but whatever America asks of us we will do. We have no say in these things, so if America wants war, that's fine. It's none of our business."

    The only conflict poor Guineans are concerned about is the civil war they live in fear of. Mr Conte is rumoured to be dying. "The army's getting ready," said Alhassan Sillah, a leading journalist. "Everyone's waiting for the coup, or something worse, maybe war."

    That would probably draw the curtain on Guinea's role on the international stage. The American and Russian bauxite companies would flee; the western donors and diplomats would follow them; the Spanish trawlers would keep a little further from its shore.
    So apparently the US is after Saddam because he is a 'bad guy' and he's dangerous. Nothing to do about oil, or anything like that and no mention that North Korea seems far more dangerous and unstable at the moment...

    We all know the Al-Qaeda links with Iraq are non-existent - if one wants to go after Al-Qaeda links, surely we should be marching into Saudi instead???

    Take Guinea for example, run by a tin-pot bad guy for as long as anyone can remember - he's at least as bad as Saddam, though he's just never gotten round to producing weapons of mass destruction and yet the US is supplying him with money arms and training!

    Not to mention all the other 'bad guys' that the US has funded down the decades - get real, the US government may be able to pull the wool over the eyes of gullible Americans, but the rest of the World can see right through this web of deceit...

    Any guesses which way Guinea will be voting on that crucial day...?

    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

  • #2
    "We all know the Al-Qaeda links with Iraq are non-existent"

    www.my-piano.blogspot

    Comment


    • #3
      Ming, don't you think we have enough Iraq war threads now? Thanks.

      Might as well start by getting rid of the crap like this first...
      www.my-piano.blogspot

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Boddington's
        Ming, don't you think we have enough Iraq war threads now? Thanks.

        Might as well start by getting rid of the crap like this first...
        F*ck you Bods, this is also about the two-faced nature of the US still supporting corrupt and violent regimes when it suits their purposes - this attack on Iraq is politically engineered, nothing more.

        I'm not going to whine on about the fact that it's about oil (except for the fact that the 2nd largest reserves will be neatly under the control of a US sanctioned government), it could be fair to say that it's also about the weapons industry if that were the case, given Bush's highly suspect relations with the US arms industry...

        This war is wrong, at least until the weapons inspectors come up with some hard evidence to the contrary. One of the things that amazes me most is that the world's only superpower has had years to build up a credible dossier of evidence against Saddam using the most sophisticated technology and it's come up with hearsay, grasping at straws - that's an embarrassment to the CIA ()...

        By it's own rules, surely the US should be laying some heavy whup-ass on NK, instead of ***** footing round Kim Jong-Il like a timid puppy - no one is taken in by this...

        Why is the US still supporting a regime like Guinea, if it is so interested about toppling 'bad guys'?

        Answer me that.
        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

        Comment


        • #5
          Of course Osama said this:

          Allah, we bring you praise. Our mortal enemy will at last be vanquished. No more will he will a threat. We have long dreamt of the day he will be persecuted and destroyed, just as he has persecuted and destroyed the lives of others. His weapons destroyed, his guns silent. His power no more the corruption and decadence that he has lavished on himself crushed like the sands of the desert. Allah be praised. Allah deliver us of the enemy that has poisoned the Arab lands.

          About Iraq and Saddam There are no links between the Government of Iraq and Muslim fundamentalist terrorist cells.

          Did anybody hear Jack Straw on the radio yesterday? Humphries absolutely skewered him.
          after admiting Saddam was not supporting the terrorists

          "Iraq does contain Al-Qu terrorists"

          "According to a CIA report, so do 60 other countries in the world, are you suggesting we go after them".

          "Er....er.. Let me just say this, ..."
          Res ipsa loquitur

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Evil Knevil
            Of course Osama said this:

            Allah, we bring you praise. Our mortal enemy will at last be vanquished. No more will he will a threat. We have long dreamt of the day he will be persecuted and destroyed, just as he has persecuted and destroyed the lives of others. His weapons destroyed, his guns silent. His power no more the corruption and decadence that he has lavished on himself crushed like the sands of the desert. Allah be praised. Allah deliver us of the enemy that has poisoned the Arab lands.

            About Iraq and Saddam There are no links between the Government of Iraq and Muslim fundamentalist terrorist cells.

            Did anybody hear Jack Straw on the radio yesterday? Humphries absolutely skewered him.
            after admiting Saddam was not supporting the terrorists

            "Iraq does contain Al-Qu terrorists"

            "According to a CIA report, so do 60 other countries in the world, are you suggesting we go after them".

            "Er....er.. Let me just say this, ..."
            Difference between containing and harboring.
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

            Comment


            • #7
              From your post


              "Last week the US added another $2m, ostensibly to cope with refugees from neighbouring Liberia. They reason that, if Mr Conte is not perfect, he is a valuable ally against Liberia's tyrannous president, Charles Taylor, and the rebels who until recently controlled much of Sierra Leone. "


              Not many good choices in that region. Its a messy world out there.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not going to whine on about the fact that it's about oil


                Good, because it isn't .
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #9
                  *bump*

                  Sorry guys, I'm catching up after a long absence...


                  This is a valid point if somewhat agressively stated. ;-)

                  The stated ideals of the US and Americans is often in serious conflict with their actions.

                  If you 'talk the talk' but don't 'walk the walk' you should hardly be surprised (or angry) when called on the hypocrasy.
                  "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    I'm not going to whine on about the fact that it's about oil


                    Good, because it isn't .
                    Must be about lining the pockets of the defence industry then...

                    Actually, we all know it's about regime change - Bush is trying his level best to get a war out of Saddam, it's blindingly obvious he doesn't just want to stop at disarmament.

                    Right, so when are gonna invade North Korea then? By Bush's own goalposts they're far more dangerous, we should be going after them first. It's not like the US would be militarily stretched - Rumsfeld said the US has the capability to fight in both theatres at the same time...

                    Don't worry Wezil, as usual the hawks are ducking the difficult questions, just like any bully they only pick the fights they know they're going to win...

                    Bods was easy, Imran snipes from the sidelines without adding any substance - I actually did a double take because it looked like a Dinodoc post...

                    LotM: Again, if the US really cared about morality and sparing the suffering of innocent people, it could clean up Charles Taylor and his cronies with about 1% of the forces that it's sending to Kuwait. Actually the Liberian situation is all the more ironic in the current climate given the US' historical relationship with that country.
                    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello MOBIUS, where are you?

                      We got your card btw, thanks.

                      I'm feeling crestfallen because I thought I was the dark horse of the Security Council.
                      Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                      Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lord of the mark


                        Difference between containing and harboring.
                        Oh I missed this point.

                        Northern Iraq is apparently where Al-Qaeda is allegedly holed up - Northern Iraq is not under Saddam's jurisdiction...
                        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                          Hello MOBIUS, where are you?

                          We got your card btw, thanks.

                          I'm feeling crestfallen because I thought I was the dark horse of the Security Council.
                          Back in London...

                          Get a suntan and maybe we can talk about your role in the Security Council...
                          Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            NK probably has nukes already. It makes it harder to use force on them. And Bush, for whatever reason, doesn't see Kim Il Jong II (or whoever) as bad as Saddam. Maybe because NK hasn't invaded anyone in a while.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              NK probably has nukes already. It makes it harder to use force on them. And Bush, for whatever reason, doesn't see Kim Il Jong II (or whoever) as bad as Saddam. Maybe because NK hasn't invaded anyone in a while.
                              Well that was damned careless letting them get nukes...

                              NK is far more likely to cause trouble (invade) in the near future than Iraq. NK is ruled by ideological fanatics, whereas Saddam is merely a strong arm bully - seems obvious to me who is the most dangerous and unstable...
                              Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

                              Comment

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