Yugoslavia is no more

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Serbia should just accept that Kosovo is gone. It will be its own independent little statelet, cuz Albania doesn't want it.

It's sad that Milosevic had to come to power and cause the break up. It was a working multi-national socialist state.

Tito is one of the few commies I have ever had respect for... no offense Che

[Zylka]

Originally posted by Sava

BTW, I hear facts from my family about how my people are being screwed over. But continue to insult and spin my words.

This is the wonder of your average "Serbian" youth born in the west. They hear stories from their elders, oh so horrible atrocities that have nothing to do with their own lives and experiences in North America. Next thing you know, they hang their little Serbian flags about and cling so desperately onto a piece of culture they think they're actually a part of - because it makes them original. The indignance that they gain from stories only goes wild, and so is born a set of ideologies which has only to do with insulting any such people who've one time or another been in the way of the "homeland's" glory.

In this case, Flatlander Fox has actually lived there. He is so far coming up with a much nicer and credible argument than "THEY R BREEDING LIKE RABBITS AND INVADING MOTHER SERBIA - THAT IS WHEN NATO MASSACRED SERBIAN PEOPLES"

Know what? My Grandfather (among other relatives) was thrown into a forced labour camp out of Poland, and in a few years had horrible atrocities commited on him, his friends and family by both German and Russian sides. I take it with absolute truth, but at the same time know I'm not Polish, nor should I hold personal resentment of the people of Russia or Germany for these past horrors. I am where I was born and grew up, where I experienced my youth, not the stories and bitter indignance of a few immigrant loved ones who haven't yet learned to accustom to life afar.

Get a grip, or you'll just become a desperate yankee boy trying to create an image that isn't worth the time. Try at least to find something you love in your true home - or just make it easy and move far, far away. Clear?

[Ming]

Zylka... what did I say about personal insults. Discuss the issues... NOT THE MEMBERS... last warning.

[Zylka]

That's a pretty broad piece on the majority of Serbian fanatics I know. Take what you want on whether or not it applies to anyone here, in any case I'm pretty sure we're not 8 anymore and can handle these self criticisms without running to a mod. I've said nothing wrong in that last post, it's serious opinion lacking specific insults

(personal insults fall into a much more blunt category, and you know that -> "you're an idiot", et.)

[Ming]

Originally posted by Zylka
Get a grip, or you'll just become a desperate yankee boy trying to create an image that isn't worth the time. Try at least to find something you love in your true home - or just make it easy and move far, far away. Clear?

This is not about the issues... this is a personal insult.

I guess you really do want to get restricted... again...

[Zylka]

I'm not too sure, do you have a quota to fill tonight or something?

[Ming]

NO... but try to remember the rules if you can...

Attack the issues... NOT THE MEMBERS!

Because if you continue, I'm stuck restricting you and then I would have to do all the damn paperwork that goes along with it...

[Zylka]

Yikes I thought it was just all fun and games for both, like you press a red button and no questions are asked??? Ok I'm back in line. Too bad Sava's had enough of this thread though, for whatever intellectual reasons!

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
Sorry Chegitz, 20 years ago, Albanians were a minority. My family lives there okay, we know a little more about it than you.

Just because your family lives there (or lived there) doesn't mean that you know everything.

The Albanian Vilayets (Provinces) in the Ottoman Empire, 1878 (234K)
ALBANIAN ETHNIC CLEANSING OF THE OLD SERBIA

From The Kosovo Crisis: Origins and History

According to the 1981 Yugoslav census, ethnic Albanians were 77.5% of the population of Kosovo. . . .

which is 22 years ago.

From 1961-1980, 92,197 Serbs and 20,424 Montenegrins migrated out of Kosovo. . . .

So 112,000 Serbs and Montenegrins moved out of Kosovo (which further reduced their percentage of the population, don't blaim Albanian emigration and birthrates, especially considering Kosovo was the poorest part of Serbia, that's like immigating to Arkansas).

And finally, as we can see from several of the maps at Various Ethnographic Maps of Macedonia, Kosovo was largely Albanian in the 19th Century.













The facts are against you, Sava.

[monolith94]

"WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE TELL CERTAIN POSTERS THAT THE CONSTANT USE OF THESE: "
*SIGH*

[Sava]

The facts are against you, Sava.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time . I'm still skepticle though, che. Perhaps if I can find time, I'll research and try to learn more.















monolith

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Sava
Well, it wouldn't be the first time . I'm still skepticle though, che. Perhaps if I can find time, I'll research and try to learn more.

I sided with the Serbs re: the war over Kosovo. I'm not hostile to Serbian feelings in this matter, but one has to realize, that time is over for now. Maybe if Serbs decided to recolonize Kosovo . . . but why, there are no jobs there.

The biggest problem with that idea is, NATO has privatized everything in the province, so the Belgrade government can't authorize slices of land for colonization.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I do understand that, but it's really irrelevent now. The wish of the majority of people living there is independence. The principle of self-determination is pretty clearcut in this case.

i agree. at the same time, bosnia should be carved up along ethnic lines. how's that for a consistent solution?

btw, cnn got the map of the new country wrong. they drew it without kosovo and vojvodina.

[Fidel]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The biggest problem with that idea is, NATO has privatized everything in the province, so the Belgrade government can't authorize slices of land for colonization.

Nah, the problem is not that htey are privatizing it, but that budget gets nothing and we are supposed to pay for loans Kosovars took before and are now unable to pay back (they have squandered them)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sava
Che... I don't think you fully understand how much the Serb's cherish Kosovo. Imagine the United States relinquishing control of Gettysburg or any other national treasure. Now take into consideration the hundreds of years since the old Battle of Kosovo against the Turks.

Imagine the Israelis giving up Hebron, the first piece of property Abraham acquired in Canaan, the first capital of King David, errr ......- oh never mind.