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The Really Unfair Tax

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  • The Really Unfair Tax

    Copied from Time.com and it shows that pensioners are gettiing triple taxed on the same money, yet, Bush doesn't want to do anything about it. In fact Bush blocked tax relief to the elderly just so he could give tax cuts to millionares.
    Bush wants to drop the "double tax" on dividends, but that's nothing. Wages withheld for Social Security may get hit three times, a burden on far more (less wealthy) Americans

    When President Bush talks about his plan to stop taxing dividend income, he says he's doing it, in part, for philosophical reasons. "It's unfair to tax money twice," he said as he unveiled his economic-stimulus plan earlier this month. "There's a principle involved. The government ought to be content with taxing revenue streams or profits one time, not twice."

    But Bush was silent about the biggest double tax of all, one that hits every working American, not just the one-fourth of tax-return filers who report stock dividends. It's the income tax layered upon the portion of a worker's paycheck that is withheld to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes.

    Say a family has $60,000 in wage income. Of that, $3,720 is deducted from its paychecks for Social Security taxes, and an additional $870 is taken out for the Medicare tax. That's $4,590 that the family never sees. Nevertheless that money is taxed as personal income, as if the family received it. What it amounts to is a tax upon a tax.

    And that's only the beginning. Some 10 million Americans are triple taxed, and that group's ranks swell by 1 million a year. When retirees begin to collect Social Security benefits, the income tax is again imposed on up to 85% of their benefits for those whose overall income exceeds a fixed level. For a husband and wife, it's $32,000 a year. For a single person, it's $25,000.

    Because these base amounts do not rise with inflation, the number of retirees subject to the triple tax will grow each year. As a result, the tax will eventually hit many who can ill afford to pay it. And this is happening at a time when an increasing number of Americans are forced to work past their planned retirement age because of depleted pensions and retirement accounts. For 2000, 7.7 million individuals and families with incomes below $75,000 were taxed on their Social Security checks.

    Be that as it may, the President's plan focuses on stockholders rather than workers. With certain exceptions, citizens would no longer pay tax on corporate dividends. The President's rationale: corporations already pay an income tax on their profits from which the dividends are paid to stockholders, and then those stockholders pay individual income tax on the dividends, thereby creating a double tax.

    For 2000, the latest year for which complete tax data are available, 34 million tax filers reported receiving dividends. But the benefits flow largely to upper-income people. Just 7.9 million individuals and families — those who filed returns with incomes of more than $100,000--reaped two-thirds of the total dividends of $147 billion. In short, 6% of 129.4 million tax filers would enjoy most of the benefits from ending the double tax on dividends.

    By contrast, TIME estimates that 100 million wage earners would profit from elimination of the double tax on Social Security and Medicare. And some 90% of those people take home less than $100,000 a year. People like Michael Kasprzak and Betty Williams of Seattle.

    Kasprzak, 50, who grew up in the Rocky Mountains, is the director of a child-care center and preschool. Williams, 45, a Tennessee native, teaches family and child studies at Seattle Central Community College and does consulting work. They have an 11-year-old daughter at home and a 22-year-old daughter who is on her own. With a 12-year-old Mercury Sable, a three-year-old Toyota pickup truck, a mortgage on a two-bedroom home, and a trip to the movies their idea of an exciting night out, the couple is solidly Middle America.

    Kasprzak says the family income varies, depending upon his wife's consulting and teaching assignments, but is usually between $65,000 and $70,000. Their income in 2001 was a bit higher. So how would they do if the Social Security and Medicare double tax are eliminated? The couple would have an extra $1,600 to spend. (Among the 100 million individuals and families who would benefit if this double tax were canceled, the savings would range from several hundred dollars to more than $2,000.) On the other hand, if Bush's current stockholder proposal is enacted, the Seattle couple would save $3, because their dividend income is just $12.

    Nothing unusual there. Indeed, Kasprzak and Williams are like the overwhelming majority of middle- and low-income families who would derive little or no benefit from the President's elimination of the dividend double tax. Of 109.9 million returns filed for 2000 by those with incomes of less than $75,000, only 20% reported dividend income.

    So who would be the real beneficiaries of the President's tax-cutting initiative? They are people who include the charter members of the Bush "Pioneers," the corporate executives, lawyers, oilmen and others who each raised more than $100,000 for the President's election campaign. People like Maurice (Hank) Greenberg, chairman of American International Group (AIG), the global insurance carrier that has been the beneficiary of many special-interest laws over the years.

    This one would go straight to his wallet. In 2002 Greenberg ranked 47th on the Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans, with an estimated worth of $3.3 billion. Much of his wealth was tied up in AIG stock. In 2001, the latest year for which complete data are available, Greenberg owned about 44 million shares of AIG. The company paid 16¢ a share in dividends, meaning Greenberg would have collected $7 million. The President's tax plan would give Greenberg an extra $2.7 million from his newly tax-free AIG dividends. That does not include the dividends he received from other stockholdings.
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  • #2
    So why is it so unfair that corporations get taxed once when they make money and once when they destribute it as dividends, yet, it is some how A.O.K. to tax the elderly three times on the same money?

    Could it be that Bush hasn't been recieving million dollar checks from the old persons home, as compared to the ones he's recieved from multinational corporations & millionares, so he isn't willing to bend over backwards to help the elderly?
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    • #3
      BTW that was only the first page if you want to read the rest you can find it here.
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      • #4
        Re: The Really Unfair Tax

        Thats not triple taxation, thats just double taxation on social security "investment". Remove the tax on the social security inputs and the net effect is a single tax on income.
        One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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        • #5
          The fact remains that people must pay this tax when they first earn the money then again when they get the money back and a few people have to pay a tax on the amount of tax they've paid to begin with.

          It seems unfair to pay a tax on a tax and it seems equally unfair to tax the same income three times. If Bush is so concerned with Double taxation for millionares then why isn't he concerned about triple taxation Grandma & Grandpa have to pay?
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          • #6
            Because if you eliminate the tax when the people recieve more than a certain amount of money, SS dies a very painful death. That would REALLY hurt the economy.

            The difference with dividend taxes is that it would be a great help on the economy. It would promote companies giving out dividends and at the same time promote further stock investment.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #7
              In regards to the SS tax, you are quite right, Oerdin. But I don't understand why you think seniors are unaffected by the dividend tax.

              One of the reasons to do this is to make dividends more attractive to investors and corporations alike, thereby driving yields up. I think dividend yields on stocks are at their lowest percentage in quite a long while - like 60 years or so (I'll look it up when I get home). I wish Bush would tackle both, and it's not too late for him to do so. But for now I'm glad he's doing the one thing as opposed to doing nothing.

              Any way, this article is foolish. The guy ought to jump on the dividend tax cut bandwagon, shouting "on to repealing the SS tax boondoggle" once this victory is done. Typical cutting off your nose to spite your face, if you ask me.

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              • #8
                Fact remains that less then 25% of the population gets any form of dividend while, I imagine, a far far high percent will get SS at some point in their life. Add to that Seniors need the money more and that it is unlikely the government can afford to do both.

                Heck, it's unlikely we can afford to do either. CNN has been reporting the budget deficit is going to triple with in the next six year to $9 trillion. Bush is by far the worst financial manager is this country's history; worse even then Reagon. He just keeps on proposing billion dollar budget busting program after budget busting program, cuts taxes for the wealthy, and then tries to blame congress for the deficits. Dificits which any sane person knows are a result of his massive spending increases and equally massive tax cuts.
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                • #9
                  I think it is a strange argument when all you need do is replace 'SS' or 'Medicare' with the word 'tax' and the whole argument is moot.
                  One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

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                  • #10
                    also if you have a 401k you dont pay tax on dividends anyway...
                    "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
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                    • #11
                      Dificits which any sane person knows are a result of his massive spending increases and equally massive tax cuts.


                      WHAT massive spending increases?

                      IIRC, spending increased by 9% last year. Bush wanted a 5% growth in spending. I believe that during the Clinton years, spending increased by over 10% every year.

                      Sorry, I just don't see a massive spending increase. I see what has been commonplace.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #12
                        There are many double/triple tax situations on most people. It's just that to single out only the wealthiest for relief from one of those situations is inequitable.

                        The easiest way to get our tax code fixed would be to require that all politicians and lawyers have to use the Form 1040-EZ...
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                        • #13
                          Let's see some of the spending Bush has signed over the last two years shall we? First we have a massive new farm subsidy program designed to help Republican win midterm elections in those oh so important mid-western states (the pay off worked BTW), then we have a giant leap forward in defense spending (some programs were needed but most of it was pork), there was the massively bloated homeland security bill (which was a pork BBQ of monumental proportions),and then there have been litterally dozens upon dozens of pet programs like the Bush's energy bill (or his forest bill or his medicare bill or... you name it) which gives subsidies to coal producers, oil & gas companies, and what not.

                          Bush knew he had a snowball's chance in hell to give a 5% increase to his pet projects and starve the Dems pet projects (extended unemployment benifets and what not) so of course government spending increases were higher the 5%. Anyone who has the faintest understanding of government knew that would happen.

                          The basic fact remains, however, that increasing spending by 9% while decreasing the money coming in by x% will result in a deficit. The original estimates which Bush used to claim that he could increase spending and cut taxes without causeing a deficit had most economists rolling on the floor laughing.

                          A good financial manager is willing to make realistic estimates of what spending for the coming year will be (not just smile and node and pretend it will be 5%, haha) and will make an honest reasonable attempt to estimate income based upon the real world economic conditions (and not the conditions of five years before or just how we wish the economy would proform which is what Bush did). If you don't do those two simple things then you aren't a good financial manager and Bush is not a good financial manager. He's going to dig this country into a financial hole so deep we're going to find a chinaman at the bottom.
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                          • #14
                            Oh, and I also forgot the cost of his star wars boondoggle.
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