Corporations leave the west at an amazing pace. Atleast there hiring does...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Anti-globalization is a misnomer. The so-called anti-globalization movement is not against globalization but rather the form it is taking. Rather than an autocratic process which takes place behind closed doors by officials beholden to no one, we want a democratic process where our labor and environmental rights are respected, where we the people have input into who shall represent us, where the poor conditions of the Third World will be visited upon the First World and where the Third World can prevent its people from being used like slaves and its environment consumed.

You'd do much better if your movement wasn't hijacked by a bunch of people that want to destroy Starbucks and McDonalds.

This is where you go wrong. They pocket the difference and leave prices the same.

Damn, prices must be high in Jacksonville . Prices have remained nominally the same, while inflation has continued to increase, meaning that the REAL cost of goods has been plumetting.

And as Dan has shown the real wage has been going up, which makes the relative prices of goods even cheaper.

And, furthermore, I'm seeing an amazing amount of cars that are NOMINALLY cheaper than what they have been. It seems to be working, che. Though, I wouldn't mind seeing it opened up either.

[DuncanK]

DanS,

Can you give me a link for that?

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Damn, prices must be high in Jacksonville . Prices have remained nominally the same, while inflation has continued to increase, meaning that the REAL cost of goods has been plumetting.

Imran, price increases are inflation

[DanS]

https://www.bls.gov

If you look carefully, you will also find that your productivity opinions are total BS too. In manufacturing alone, an hour spent today will produce about 2x what it did in 1980.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Source please? I'm a little skeptical.

A discussion I had with Doug Henwood. I had made the comment that globalization had nothing to do with the rate of profit, where upon he heaped some statistics upon me.

http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/LBO_home.html

The prices of Nike shoes have not decreased significantly because of the cost of advertising. As the years go by, they need to advertise more and more to stay alive in the oligopoly. Image if they still employed US workers. THey would be out of buisness. Foreign workes have slowed the increase in the price of the good.

Phil Knight (the head of Nike) said that the reason he doesn't produce shoes in the US is because Americans don't want to work, not because the cost would be prohibitive. What's Nike's advertizing budget? (I'd check myself but my entire Adobe folder has vanaished so I can't read the PDF of Nik'es quarterly earning statements.)

Question, why does Nike need to "advertize more?" When was the last time you saw an advert for Rebock, Puma, etc. on tv? In fact, Nike has the best brand recognition of probably any product on the planet. They wouldn't need to advertize for ten years and people would still know the swoosh.

The next thing that is interesting is that you have changed your statement. From decreasing prices you now have gone to decreasing the rate of increase (and I'll buy the latter). This means, however, that when the savings were first realized, they were not passed along to the consumer. A pair of Air Jordans today cost $150US from Niketown. Not a substantial savings for a pair of shoes that cost approximately $15US to produce.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
A good 10% increase.

I don't see it. That should be roughly $27US, but it only looks like about an increase of $10US, which would be a 3% gain in the last 20 years.

Imran, I admitted the possibility that savings for consumers were eventually realized in lowered price increases, but in the meantime the company pockets the savings themselves. In the late '80s-early '90s, the rate of profit, which had been decreasing over the previous thrity years, began to rise again as unions were smashed or agreed to wage cuts and layoffs and as jobs headed overseas. There's a lagtime, however.

[DanS]

Che: If he wants to go back to 1970, he will find that compensation was astronomical. It subsequently plumetted, troughing in 1991. The 10% number is from 1991 through present.

The fact is that shipping jobs overseas helped arrest the fall in the American economy. We shipped tens of millions of jobs to China last decade alone. Chinese goods going to the US now account for 10% of China's economy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You'd do much better if your movement wasn't hijacked by a bunch of people that want to destroy Starbucks and McDonalds.

With as many people as these demos bring out, do you think there'd be a Micky D's or Starbucks still standing if the movement had been hijacked. What's been hijacked is media coverage. Still, if the corporate media had focused as much on the police initiated violence (rather than spreading the lie that protestors start it), six thugs in black bandana's wouldn't be what everyone remembers.

Damn, prices must be high in Jacksonville . Prices have remained nominally the same, while inflation has continued to increase, meaning that the REAL cost of goods has been plumetting.

They aren't substantially different except for rent. It's kind of annoying, since the cost of living down here is supposed to be 67% of Chicago's.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Question, why does Nike need to "advertize more?" When was the last time you saw an advert for Rebock, Puma, etc. on tv? In fact, Nike has the best brand recognition of probably any product on the planet. They wouldn't need to advertize for ten years and people would still know the swoosh.

They need to corner the worldwide market . And Nike doesn't want to be usurped, so advertising is essential.

price increases are inflation

If nominal prices were actually going up, but I haven't seen that at all.

Inflation is actually the is decrease in the value of money. Price increases are a PART of inflation (usually).

It does happen that prices do not increase as much as the inflation rate says they should.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They aren't substantially different except for rent. It's kind of annoying, since the cost of living down here is supposed to be 67% of Chicago's.

I guess rent makes up that difference (unless you mean that rent is too high comparatively) .

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by DanS
If you look carefully, you will also find that your productivity opinions are total BS too. In manufacturing alone, an hour spent today will produce about 2x what it did in 1980.

First, there is no substantial increase in wages. Your graph shows that wages have just rebounded from a significant decrease during the 80's. If you go back to the 70's I believe that there is an overall decrease.

I agree that the economy has done ok during the 90s. The reason for this is great leaps forward in productivity. The argument on productiveness of moving factories overseas was dialectic. I agree that it shows an increase in productivity as it is commonly measured. Look at the big picture. It is still inefficient to produce things far away and ship them when you can produce them closer to where they will be used. The only difference is that real wages have been reduced. And yes, I know the data shows an overall growth in wages since 95, but that doesn't show an increase due to moving factories overseas. That only shows an overall growth. As che has stated, during that period there was a lot of wage increases in specific industries, and not the industries where jobs have been lost. Indeed, in those industries there is downward presure on wages.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DanS
Che: If he wants to go back to 1970, he will find that compensation was astronomical. It subsequently plumetted, troughing in 1991.

The fact is that shipping jobs overseas helped arrest the fall in the American economy.

I would have to agree with both of these statements. I would guess that the oil shocks sucked the profitability out of the existing system of compensation, but unions were still strong enough to resist attacks, especially coming right after Vietnam. Once Reagan sacked PATCO, it was open season on the American worker. Wages eventually recovered, but it was a long decade and a half of misery.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As che has stated, during that period there was a lot of wage increases in specific industries, and not the industries where jobs have been lost. Indeed, in those industries there is downward presure on wages.

The overall picture matters. The industries that left were inefficient in the US, and it is better that they have left. Now to kick the steel industry to overseas .

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It does happen that prices do not increase as much as the inflation rate says they should.

No, you measure inflation by looking at old prices and comparing them to new prices. And that is the value of money.

[DanS]

DuncanK: We moved 50 million jobs to China in the late 90s, but wages in the good old US of A increased substantially.

Try to explain that. Thanks.