Historical What-If: World War I in 1905

[cavebear]

Originally posted by Saras
I was reading the vol. II of the Rothschilds history, and since these guys were connected at every major power, it gives some insights into the inner workings of diplomacy. I was surprised that Germany and UK almost allied in the end of 1800's, because the colonial interests of both nations were so closely matched in Africa and elsewhere.

Now that would have been some alliance!

And it would have been a more natural alliance. The monarchs were far more related than either were with the French, and England had long-standing conflicts with the Mediterranean countries (not sure about Germany vs France back then as Germany was relatively "new").

[Boris Godunov]

Not sure about Germany vs. France? Remember the whole Franco-Prussian war? Germany was founded on antagonizing France!

[Saras]

And brits stayed on the sidelines in that one, remember?

[Boris Godunov]

I wasn't there, so I can't remember anything. Let's ask Slowwhand, he might recall it.

[orange]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Woodrow Wilson was bar far the most interventionist and warmongering president the U.S. ever had. Roosevelt wasn't a warmonger, just a very famous and capable former military leader.

Love ya Boris, but this is bull****

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by orange


Love ya Boris, but this is bull****

How can I argue with such a specific statement?

I'm not saying TR was a pacifist (though he did win a Nobel Peace Prize, oddly enough), I'm saying Wilson was far more prone to international intervention. In 1905, I sincerely doubt the U.S.A. would have had any inkling of intervening in a European war.

Wilson had, IIRC, 127 foreign military expeditions during his presidency. It finally got to the point that Congress had to smack him down and threaten to revoke funding if he kept it up.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Woodrow Wilson was bar far the most interventionist and warmongering president the U.S. ever had. Roosevelt wasn't a warmonger, just a very famous and capable former military leader.

Wilson only wanted to war with small Latin American nations. He was very much against war with industrialized nations and he was reluctant to get into WWI.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by DuncanK


Wilson only wanted to war with small Latin American nations. He was very much against war with industrialized nations and he was reluctant to get into WWI.

So why did he send interventionist expeditions into Russia and Africa?

Wilson's reluctance over getting involved in Europe wasn't through his lack of desire, it was through the lack of popular support until 1917. Wilson was actually eager to be more directly involved in the war, but he knew he couldn't so long as American antipathy was so high. That's why the Lusitania was such a critical incident, as it helped push the American public towards the pro-intervention camp. Wilson wasn't upset one bit.

I don't think Roosevelt would have been more willing to enter the war, and theorize he actually would have been less willing. Especially in 1905, when there were even stronger notions of American isolationism. Getting involved in European wars that were confined to Europe was not going to be something most Americans wanted.

[DuncanK]

I know the French had not perfected trench warfare, but they did have machine guns I believe, and that weapon did wonders on defense. I don't remember reading that Germany made great advances into France at the beginning of the war. They took some land I know, but it was at a great cost and it wasn't strategic at all.

[Boris Godunov]

Germany came within a hair's breadth of surrounding Paris in 1914 and ending the war as quickly as it had begun. However, the German commander chickened out over his thin supply lines and turned south too soon. If he had pressed on with the plan, history might be quite a bit different today.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I'm not saying TR was a pacifist (though he did win a Nobel Peace Prize, oddly enough)

What does the Nobel Peace Prize have to do with pacifism?

[chequita guevara]

TR was pouning his fists in Congress for joining the war in Europe in 1914. TR wanted us to get in on the colonial grab when Germany's empire was divied up. If he were Prez., we would have gone to war. Hell, we almost went to war with Germany over what is now American Somoa. Only a typhoon stoppped it from happening by sinking the British and German ships, while leaving the Americans still floating.

The War in Europe problably would have been something of a replay of WWI. Despite Russia's inability to fight, Germany would have needed large numbers of troops on that front in any event. The submarine fleets were barely even started (so that aspect would have been different). The Ottomans held more territory then (since the second Balkan War hadn't happened yet). Which ever side the OE joined, all of the rest of the Balkans would have done the opposite (and since the OE's army was largely officered by Germans, it's likely they would have sided with Germany).

[Shi Huangdi]

Just because TR may have wanted intervention against Germany doesn't mean it would have happened. I doubt Congress would improve US entry into the war, and even if it did it owuld have taken awhile to get the US army to the point where it could have made an impact.

[Boris Godunov]

That's the point, Shi. American sentiment at the time was decidely isolationist. And as Che pointed out, since Germany would have been unable to engage in the kind of submarine warfare they did in 1914-1918, stirring up American support for entering the war would have been extremely difficult.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


So why did he send interventionist expeditions into Russia and Africa?

not industrialized at the time. I admit they aren't LA though.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Wilson's reluctance over getting involved in Europe wasn't through his lack of desire, it was through the lack of popular support until 1917. Wilson was actually eager to be more directly involved in the war, but he knew he couldn't so long as American antipathy was so high. That's why the Lusitania was such a critical incident, as it helped push the American public towards the pro-intervention camp. Wilson wasn't upset one bit.

I don't think Roosevelt would have been more willing to enter the war, and theorize he actually would have been less willing. Especially in 1905, when there were even stronger notions of American isolationism. Getting involved in European wars that were confined to Europe was not going to be something most Americans wanted.

Agreed