ANALYSIS: Younger Koreans View America as Real Threat

[Lancer]

Remember Tingkai, the Koreans youth consider the US to be the "real threat". We wouldn't want to give them an excuse to continue their mindless hatred of the US.

Besides, militarily having 37,000 US soldiers in place saves lives in the event of an NK attack. Consider that NK almost made it last time out...drove SK forces all the way to Pusan...and just about into the sea. It was only US led allied forces that stopped them, and a very nasty US led invasion at Inchon that turned it around. Thanks, but I'd rather the US didn't have to do all that AGAIN. I'd rather the American men not have to buy that real estate with their blood AGAIN. No, if the South Koreans are so shallow to really want us out, and to hate us as the "real threat" they can go to hell for all I care.

[Shi Huangdi]

Unfortunately withdrawal from SK isn't going to happen. If NK were to conquer the South, there would be a global recession. Which is why no President would ever withdraw unless SK demanded it. Too bad though, I think it'd be good to let SK serve as an example. Having the South Koreans subjected to communist slavery would serve as an excellent example against taking the US for granted.

[Tingkai]

Just read this in the Economist.

America has the "tendency to underestimate the peoples of the region and to overestimate America's ability to make a bad situation better," Douglas Little, an American professor, wrote in American Orientalism: The United States and the Middle East since 1945.

His comments may be about the Middle East, but they seem apropos to South Korea.

[Lancer]

Shi, that's right.

Back in the '70s when I was in Germany a friend and I were walking around Bamburg barhopping. We went into one place, quietly took stools at the bar and sat chatting for about 10 minutes when I noticed that the bar tender was serving ppl that had come in after us. When he had a free moment I waved him down and ordered a couple of beers. The reply? "We don't serve American soldiers here".

...and this was ok with the other patrons who just looked at us.

Few things have made me so angry in my life, but we just got up and left.

We went from Bamburg up to Hof which was a border town. That was our cycle in the border guards. Anyway, I much prefered it on the border because the Germans there lived close enough to the border to appreciate the Americans who were there to protect them from what they could see happening on the other side. The fences, minefields and concrete watch towers that made the Soviet empire into a huge prison was not lost on these people. We were never turned down for service. On the contrary, we got smiles and occasionally a free beer from the friendly people of Hof. I always wanted to go back.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by GP


Looks like the Southies know what they need to do.

[Kramerman]

America has the "tendency to underestimate the peoples of the region and to overestimate America's ability to make a bad situation better," Douglas Little, an American professor, wrote in American Orientalism: The United States and the Middle East since 1945.

lots of guys say lots of things, and a lot of what they say stims from secondary information, and its application to a region other than intended (the middle east to north korea) is dangerous speculation and extrapolation, especially if this statement is being misconstrued from its original context, even just slightly. I could just as easily find multiple other professors, scientists, politicians, etc with a dozen conflicting ideas and views from this man.

We went from Bamburg up to Hof which was a border town. That was our cycle in the border guards. Anyway, I much prefered it on the border because the Germans there lived close enough to the border to appreciate the Americans who were there to protect them from what they could see happening on the other side. The fences, minefields and concrete watch towers that made the Soviet empire into a huge prison was not lost on these people. We were never turned down for service. On the contrary, we got smiles and occasionally a free beer from the friendly people of Hof. I always wanted to go back.

Here, this is a first hand experience. Its application to korea is also extrapolation, but due to the hands-on nature of this experience, clear in its context, it has much more significance and likelyhood than Douglas Little's statement (i would think, anyway )

Kman

[Ned]

I think the growing problem we have with the SK's is just one more example of the problem we should expect when we leave an occupying army in a “liberated” country after a war. We have the same problem in Germany. We now have the problem in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

We must recognize, IMHO, that we need to withdraw after a war. This obviously leads one to the conclusion that we should finish wars so that we can withdraw within a reasonable time. Korea and Kuwait are good examples of not finishing wars. Vietnam was another – although in that case we did withdraw.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Kramerman

its application to a region other than intended (the middle east to north korea) is dangerous speculation and extrapolation

Dangerous? Care to explain. Seems a bit over the top to me.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Drinking again, eh.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Ned
I think the growing problem we have with the SK's is just one more example of the problem we should expect when we leave an occupying army in a “liberated” country after a war. We have the same problem in Germany. We now have the problem in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

We must recognize, IMHO, that we need to withdraw after a war. This obviously leads one to the conclusion that we should finish wars so that we can withdraw within a reasonable time. Korea and Kuwait are good examples of not finishing wars. Vietnam was another – although in that case we did withdraw.

Interesting point. I talked to a very bright (for a Marine) 3-star general, who made the analogy of a lifeguard. (He had been in charge of the Marine aid mission in Somalia.) People like being the lifeguard a lot more than being the saved swimmer. AFter a while they start to resent the lifeguard. It is human nature. This is what he had seen in Somalia. Initial happiness, followed by growing resentment.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Lancer
Back in the '70s when I was in Germany a friend and I were walking around Bamburg barhopping. We went into one place, quietly took stools at the bar and sat chatting for about 10 minutes when I noticed that the bar tender was serving ppl that had come in after us. When he had a free moment I waved him down and ordered a couple of beers. The reply? "We don't serve American soldiers here".

When I was in Kaisserslaughtern that happened to my friends and I. Only they said "This bar is for Germans only". One of my friends was black and I've always suspect the reason they didn't want to give us a beer was racism.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Why should the US spread itself thin? Why not maintain the defence agreements, but use the more efficient method of the ROK providing the first line of defence and if need be the US can provide reserves. That would be cheaper for the US taxpayers and it would provide the US with more resources to deal with other problems.

It would be even cheaper if we didn't have any troops over there at all. And in your cost-benefit analysis, I think you are ignoring the costs of bringing troops into a theater, when needed (i.e. in a war). The costs of amphibious assualt. Can you say "Inchon"? The costs of a greater chance of HAVING a war.

Scratch your brain and think about it.

And at the end of the day, what's in it for us? Why should we extend a defense agreement to a country that doesn't want us there? REsents us. Go with God...

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Ned
I think the growing problem we have with the SK's is just one more example of the problem we should expect when we leave an occupying army in a “liberated” country after a war. We have the same problem in Germany. We now have the problem in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

We must recognize, IMHO, that we need to withdraw after a war. This obviously leads one to the conclusion that we should finish wars so that we can withdraw within a reasonable time. Korea and Kuwait are good examples of not finishing wars. Vietnam was another – although in that case we did withdraw.

The problem is in the case of South Korea is that having troops actually there guarantees US intervention- without the troops there NK might invade hoping we don't intervene. Moreover, NK has a standing army that is much, much bigger then SK's- however South Korea has a huge reserve army which if mobilized would give them an army of comprable size. If South Korea did have enough time to mobilize their reserves, they would probably win the war with their technological, aerial, and economic advantages. If we had to wait to deploy those troops we had in Korea, they might not get there in time before SK is overrun.