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Originally posted by DanS
Do you have some examples of reforms that would have high immediate payback?
Do you have some examples of reforms that would have high immediate payback?
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I think there is a problem looking for immediate paybacks from structural changes. A structural change that encourages investment or work or whatever will only have wealth creation effects after some time has been spent on the projects. No? Of course, there might be an immediate stock market jump. So equity holders might get richer quick. But for the average joe, it would take a while for his per capita income to go up. No? -
I think it's causing some trouble in the short run.Originally posted by Colon
On a sidenote, who believes the European Stability and Growth Pact is suffocating economic growth?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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A structural change that encourages investment or work or whatever will only have wealth creation effects after some time has been spent on the projects.
Politicians have to make priorities based on a limited amount of political capital that they have. If everyone can reap some benefits early, the whole package of reforms can be run through over time.
I'm just interested in knowing where the action is on this.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Good point. Some stimulus could eliminate some of the drag from the reforms.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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I think that's just wishful thinking. Before they even get the chance to start utilising the capital for structural reforms they have to deal with elections coming up or have they shifted their focus to another issue. Or the short-term fix gives the impression the structural problem has disappeared, which means there's even less desire to implement structural reform.Originally posted by DanS
A structural change that encourages investment or work or whatever will only have wealth creation effects after some time has been spent on the projects.
Politicians have to make priorities based on a limited amount of political capital that they have. If everyone can reap some benefits early, the whole package of reforms can be run through over time.
I'm just interested in knowing where the action is on this.
I don't think there's an overriding necessity to boost growth in the short run either. (sometimes at expense of growth in the long run) It's not because you can't lift growth by a percentage of GDP the following year, that you're going to end up in a depression.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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I doubt it, even the posterchild of pseudoliberalism, the UK, isn't doing too great. Even less so if you discount for the housing bubble.Originally posted by Saras
I believe it's not the ESGP, but rather lack of strauctural reform that's killing growth in Europe.
Seems more like the tech bubble created a worse hangover than expected.
Greenspan would be shocked, SHOCKED by that pesky Lithuanian.Originally posted by GP
What!?!? You think the growth of the economy occurs as a result of work and projects and free markets? Not central bank shenanigans?“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Before they even get the chance to start utilising the capital for structural reforms they have to deal with elections coming up or have they shifted their focus to another issue. Or short-term fix creates the impression the structural problem has disappeared, which means there's even less desire to implement reform.
This is a really odd way of looking at it, even if it is an accurate picture. You would only have this problem if the politicians aren't true believers in the policies that they're espousing. A malaise of cynicism.Last edited by DanS; May 24, 2003, 13:51.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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"A malaise of cynicism."
Also known as realism.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Events, my friend, events. If Bush had kept the promises he made in his election campaign the US wouldn't have been bombing the Taliban, let alone invading Iraq and attempting to reshape the Middle East. 9/11 forced him to run an activist foreign policy and I think he's flexible enough to believe in it.Originally posted by DanS
This is a really odd way of looking at it, even if it is an accurate picture. You would only have this problem if the politicians aren't true believers in the policies that they're espousing.
I'm willing to believe many to most politicians try whatever they can to realise their ideals. It's just that they also have compromise to get the necessary support while there's only a limited amount of time one has. A politician also has to be an administrator, sometimes implementing policies that aren't his or which he doesn't fully support. (unless he's intellectually flexible - and I think many are)
Back to the ESGP: it doesn't seem all that bad if it means that Schröder doesn't have any other option but to forgo short-term fixes and push through structural reforms.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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You DanSed again!DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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Sounds like you just want to send the economy to a recession. That will make the reforms look responsible and I can't see that they will stick.Originally posted by Colon
Back to the ESGP: it doesn't seem all that bad if it means that Schröder doesn't have any other option but to forgo short-term fixes and push through structural reforms.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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If Bush had kept the promises he made in his election campaign the US wouldn't have been bombing the Taliban, let alone invading Iraq and attempting to reshape the Middle East. 9/11 forced him to run an activist foreign policy and I think he's flexible enough to believe in it.
Well, there you have it. He's flexible enough to believe in it, and you would never expect him to go back on it or half-ass it, right? He went in to Afghanistan to build credibility for a wider war. We got some immediate anti-terrorism benefits from it and now our demarches are more respected.
So why would you expect the leaders of the Euro-zone to half-ass reform overall, unless you think they don't believe in the policies they're putting out?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Isn't he being half-assed now? Ok, he acted vigorously in Afghanistan and Iraq, but the treatment to Saudi Arabia, North Korea and especially Pakistan has been completely different. Bush can't go much further beyond cooling down relations and applying diplomatic pressure because circumstances force him to it.Originally posted by DanS
Well, there you have it. He's flexible enough to believe in it, and you would never expect him to go back on it or half-ass it, right? He went in to Afghanistan to build credibility for a wider war. And we got some immediate anti-terrorism benefits from it.
I didn't say I expect them to half-ass, I was reacting to your statement that short-term fixes have primacy.So why would you expect the leaders of the Euro-zone to half-ass it, unless you think they don't believe in what the policies they're putting out?DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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I didn't say that the fixes should be short-term. Rather, the highest priority should go to those that have the fastest positive impact.
Why is there controversy about my question? It seems so simple!
Isn't he being half-assed now?
Are you on crack? Bush has threatened Syria with regime change, proposed a free trade area of the Middle East, introduced a major peace initiative, made Iran fess up about holding al Qaeda terrorists, publicly accused Saudi Arabia of ignoring explicit warnings about terrorism, and announced the movement of all US troops from Saudi Arabia. All within the timespan of less than two months!
Edit: On North Korea, he has successfully realigned US and Japanese interests on the issue, and gone a long way to doing so with South Korea and China. This administration has been busy!Last edited by DanS; May 24, 2003, 14:45.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by DanS
I didn't say that the fixes should be short-term. Rather, the highest priority should go to those that have the fastest positive impact.[quote]
Ok, I misunderstood.
What controversy? And I don't think you ever say anything simple.Why is there controversy about my question? It seems so simple
Don't your examples confirm what I'm saying? He treathens Syria with regime change because he can, he can't do that with Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. (certainly not to the same extent) It's all still cooling down relations and applying diplomatic pressure, just as I said. (except of that free trade area thingy but I doubt it's much more than a diplomatic gesture)Are you on crack? Bush has threatened Syria with regime change, proposed a free trade area of the Middle East, introduced a major peace initiative, made Iran fess up about holding al Qaeda terrorists, publicly accused Saudi Arabia of ignoring explicit warnings about terrorism, and announced the movement of all US troops from Saudi Arabia. All within the timespan of less than two months!
What I'm saying is just as simple as what you are saying: policies are only partly formed by the beliefs of those who implement it.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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